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TRANSLATION OF QURAN
BY DR. QAMAR ZAMAN
Translation Status
آیات
سورۃ
نمبر
1-7 الفَاتِحَة -1
1-286 البَقَرَة -2
1-200 آل عِمرَان -3
1-176 النِّسَاء -4
1-120 المَائدة -5
1-165 الاٴنعَام -6
1-206 الاٴعرَاف -7
1-75 الاٴنفَال -8
1-129 التّوبَة -9
1-109 یُونس -10
1-123 هُود -11
1-111 یُوسُف -12
1-43 الرّعد -13
1-52 إبراهیم -14
1-99 الحِجر -15
1-128 النّحل -16
1-111 بنیٓ اسرآئیل / الإسرَاء -17
1-110 الکهف -18
1-98 مَریَم -19
1-135 طٰه -20
1-112 الاٴنبیَاء -21
1-78 الحَجّ -22
1-118 المؤمنون -23
1-64 النُّور -24
1-77 الفُرقان -25
1-227 الشُّعَرَاء -26
1-93 النَّمل -27
1-88 القَصَص -28
1-69 العَنکبوت -29
1-60 الرُّوم -30
1-34 لقمَان -31
1-30 السَّجدَة -32
1-73 الاٴحزَاب -33
1-54 سَبَإ -34
1-45 فَاطِر -35
1-83 یسٓ -36
1-182 الصَّافات -37
1-88 صٓ -38
1-75 الزُّمَر -39
1-85 المؤمن / غَافر -40
1-54 حٰمٓ السجدة / فُصّلَت -41
1-54 القَمَر -54
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»«
QURAN
MISCONCEPTIONS
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Does ideal economy has any scope for individuals to possess private property?
Add Your Comments  Question by: MUBASHIR SYED On 08 October 2010
Comments by: momin On 08 October 2010Report Abuse
 
Dear Mubashir Syed,  
 
Answer to your question is NO. But this may not be in accordance with  
Quran. If we desire a welfare state, than it is not possible without state ownership of resources.  
Socialist economy is the solution. Government should act like stomach in a body, who receives  
everything digests and distributes to all body parts according to their requirement and doesn't keep  
anything in the stomach.

Comments by: moazzam On 09 October 2010
Dear Mubashir: good example, anyhow,you should keep in view that, the each body part /organ has its own storage of food for its tissues.As you know, in digestive system the microvilli structures create a vast surface area through which nutrients can be absorbed. Specialized cells allow absorbed materials to cross the mucosa into the blood, where they are carried off in the bloodstream to other parts of the body for storage or further chemical change. This part of the process varies with different types of nutrients. The small vessels carry the reformed fat to the veins of the chest, and the blood carries the fat to storage depots in different parts of the body.  
I agree with you that,the NATURAL RESOURCES in a state should be taken as a food in a stomach ,which must be distributed among the each member of the society accordingly,(as a welfare state).But dear Mubashir,with quranic perspective there is an other element in the socio economic system,that depends upon the private property owner ship (might be controlled),this will also become the state resource of income (by laving taxes at individuals) .The economist (technocrats)can suggest the government to legislate the socio economic system in the light of quranic values in this regard.The divine order "regarding INFAQ FEE SABILILLAH " is given at 68 different places in quran, having much weight to accommodate the PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNER SHIP,while establishing any economic system of state.In my opinion this element of private owner ship along with the instigation of INFAQ FEE SABEELILLAH is a very effective tool to purify the human inner from the SHUH ANNAFS (the murz alqalb),otherwise the each and every society member will act like ROBOT in economic system.

Comments by: Mubashir Syed On 10 October 2010Report Abuse
Dear Moazzam, I think there is no scope of private property ownership in an ideal economic system. Your justification and references from Quran are appropriate until our understanding doesnt change to concept of ideal economy flow and growth.  
 
Until we had our ideology routed in practical law and cause and effect we had many references of Mystical God playing dice with universe........dint we ?? But after a rational analysis and correcting our ideology we understood same verses in most rational essence until now. I think we need to correct our understanding for economy of state affairs then we might find deeper meanings of above given references. For example our rational ideology lead us to understand salath, saum, hajj, riba, zina, zani, fahash, dua..........etc.  
 
Dear Momin, its not against Quran, i think its against our current understanding of Quran over concerned topic.  
 
Islam is all about selflessness, so trying to justify possessing wealth based on skills or efforts we again get back to concept of selfishness. I dont think ideal parents would like to live in luxury when compared to their children as they are more skillfull and work harder than children...........this is what i understand by selflessness.  
 
In continuation to Brother Momins wonderful example, and all parts of body do their job to fill the stomach.  
Only thing which gives a person cut above other human is amount of efforts which he puts in. Now as someone has put in more effort doesnt mean he deserves luxury by holding resources back. In fact i feel state should decide what a person should be given based on his Rank( Effectiveness of skills and efforts which someone gives to support the system). For example i would like Prime Minister to use helicopter for conveyance as his time is more efficient than a common man.  
 
Concept of purification by distributing wealth is a bit weird at this level of understanding. In traditional understanding when a muslim encounters a poor he feels pity for the poor. Where as real concept of Isam changes a muslim to pity on himself as he is one the reasons for making the other guy poor.  
 
Note : When humans stop resources by giving justifications, State/Capitalist will generate grounds/ideas to make humans spend in the name of comfort, luxury, satisfaction.....etc. No economy can grow with pace if resources are blocked.  
 
“Lets Visualize a day when having only one charter plane would be considered as poverty.“  
 
Thanks,  
Mubashir Syed.  

Comments by: momin On 11 October 2010Report Abuse
 
Dear Mubashir Syed.  
You explained well.  
Dear Moazzem,  
 
Kindly explain the verse, YESALOONAKA MAZAYOONNFAIKOON, KOOLIL AFEW

Comments by: moazzam On 11 October 2010
Dear Momin :plz read verse 2/219 that mean,give to state (for the betterment of mankind) what ever is excess (no cut from your own need). An other verse of same weight-age is the verse 2/215, which explain the utilization of that donations. Also these both verses should be elaborated keeping insight the other 66 verses related to INFAQ.In my opinion, this voluntarily INFAQ to the state(other than compulsory taxes) is playing very effective role in INDIVIDUAL PERSONALITY DEVELOPMENT (zakah) in the Muslim society..To legislate / implement the economic system the technocrats should have to consider the verse 43/31--35, 16/71--75, along with other 68 verses of same issue given at different places in quran.

Comments by: Mubashir Syed On 14 October 2010Report Abuse
Dear Moazzam, Excess as i understand is for excess of efforts & skills after consuming/utilizing it to nourish your requirement of survival.  
 
Personality is developed when a human gives his skills and effort to other people/state. Giving money develops ego knowingly/unknowingly.  
 
If we take excess in terms of Money or property then no individual has got any excess. Infinity is the limit of excess. Am not trying to be pessimist here but needs of human grow with his money, so he is always in need of money and striving for more.  
 
Thanks,  
Mubashir Syed.

Comments by: moazzam On 14 October 2010
Dear Mubashir Sayed : Although the economist can elaborate this topic comprehensively from each and every aspects,but ,i think the skill,efforts and time are money(sources of money) in any economic systems.Dear Mubashir.let me comment at your this statement that, "Concept of purification by distributing wealth is a bit weird at this level of understanding. In traditional understanding when a Muslim encounters a poor he feels pity for the poor. Where as real concept of Islam changes a Muslim to pity on himself as he is one the reasons for making the other guy poor.  
 
Note : When humans stop resources by giving justifications, State/Capitalist will generate grounds/ideas to make humans spend in the name of comfort, luxury, satisfaction.....etc. No economy can grow with pace if resources are blocked. The 1st part of ur statement seems void in case of TRUE MOMIN / MUSLIM the quran addressing to,as the 2nd part of this sentence supports my version .The economic system based upon the quranic values, never allow to stop the resources(individually or collectively) rather instigate to utilize them (to generate economic cycle).That is the sense of verse 22/ 19.In my sight quran never put limits at individual capital to circulate, which ultimately increases the economic growth in any society. Also quran never put any restriction at government to control the individual income share proportionality with the state. The state can legislate the laws in this regards as deems fit to the government for the betterment of general public.Dear Mubashir ur elaboration of verses 2/219,2/215,43/31--35,16/71--75 in support of ur version will be appreciated.

Comments by: Mubashir Syed On 15 October 2010Report Abuse
Dear Moazzam, You are right an economist can elaborate and design flow of economy based on final result which we want to achieve. Please make sure when you discuss with any economist to give him the picture of final result we want to achieve.  
 
Am not learned but as and when required I refer Allama pervez translation which is available on net. Please let me know which translation you consider while referring to verses of Quran which might help me in doing my homework before commenting.  
 
Just gave a cursory glance on verses referred (2/219,2/215,43/31--35,16/71—75) by you and found nothing complicated there. In fact was happy to see verse 2/215 which says The first stage of your struggle involves financial sacrifice. What I understand by this is before formation of System people had properties for personal security and luxury like we have today and guidance is given to sacrifice it as a first stage for formation of system. As property might make humans mind intoxicated causing hindrance in understanding and establishing system.  
 
I am trying to discuss scope of private property in IDEAL SYSTEM not in a current system. When Successor of a leader should not be his children but the one who deserves based on capability then how come successor of his wealth can be his child? In that case I would say child born with golden spoon in his mouth as his parents had enough skills and worked hard enough to cover seven generations who can sit idle.  
 
Lets think of providing equal grounds for all children born. With our concept of property and luxury I think this is not possible and equality cannot be justified.  
 
Skills, efforts and time are not always money. Money is means of exchange for realizable part of skills, efforts and time. A person can use his realizable and unrealizable parts of skills, effort and time to help others. This would be more effective.  
 
I think if blocking resources are prohibited this in itself convey that we cant have private property. And being more skilful and hard working than others as justification for luxury I think is selfishness.  
 
Note : With no intension to offend or defend just wanted to discuss with people of understanding and ever enhancing attribute.  
 
Thanks,  
Mubashir Syed.

Comments by: Dr. Qamar Zaman On 16 October 2010
يَسْأَلُونَكَ مَاذَا يُنْفِقُونَ قُلِ الْعَفْوَ  
." and they ask You what they ought to spend. say: "That which is beyond Your needs."  
In this verse there are two things to note .  
First one is general and second one is particularly relating to discussion of  
انفاق  
Let me take the word العفو . this word is from root letters ع ف و which means in Urdu and Arabic عافیت .It is wrongly translated as beyond your needs .  
The second point is about the word یسألونک which is usually translated as they ask you .  
I think it is better translated to be “ they will ask you “ because we don’t think that our prophet was not fully prepared to answer question , and whenever he was asked something ,he used to wait for Wahee to answer the question .  
If we appoint a head of a department we always look if he is fully capable to handle the matters . How come Prophet Mohammad was appointed as prophet with partial knowledge and he used to wait for Wahee for the answers . Even God did not know that such questions will be asked .Otherwise he would have taught and trained him .  
No Sir ….this was not the case , on the contrary he was fully capable enough to handle the responsibility . so wherever you see words like یسألونک it means “ they will ask .“  

Comments by: Mubashir Syed On 16 October 2010Report Abuse
Dear Aurangzaib, Please help and emphasize Dr QZ's comment is too high level for me to understand.(Smiley)  
 
Thanks,  
Mubashir Syed.

Comments by: aurangzaib On 17 October 2010Report Abuse
My dear Mubashir,  
 
Verse: 2/219:  
Dr. Sahib’s description of یسئلونک and العفو again altered the traditional concepts attached with these words. All of a sudden, it gave a jolt to me too and I was left blank for quite some time, in the same way as you expressed your feelings above.  
 
However, as I reached a conclusion with some effort, it became very easy to comprehend the wisdom of these new interpretations – together with the ill-logic behind the traditional meanings.  
 
As you must have already understood, یسئلونک is very clearly described by Dr. Sahib with the help of the example of a head of department appointed with deficient data to solve problems. Rasools definitely are not deficient in KNOWLEDGE and stand at the highest pedestal of wisdom where they act as beacons of knowledge for the entire humanity. Hence, Yas’alunaka can only express here a future tense, meaning, “they will ask you”. The verb is in “Madhare’ “ مضارع form and can mean both present as well as future.  
 
I figure the more important topic for you was العفو . The question in your mind was WHAT TO CONSTRUE FROM IT NOW that its traditional meaning has been set aside and it is re-interpreted as عافیت . I would try some running translation which might solve our common problem:  
 
“THEY WILL ASK YOU (O PROPHET) WHAT/HOW MUCH THEY MAY OPEN UP FOR SPENDING (انفاق ). TELL THEM THAT THEY SHOULD KEEP IN VIEW THEIR SECURITY/SAFETY/FUTURE (العفو – عافیت ).  
(Dr. Sahib may kindly correct me if I haven’t grasped the essence of things).  
 
This is the best I can construe by introducing the new discovery. At least to me this looks much more rational that the old one that said : “Spend all that is over and above your requirements”. I mean, nobody may like to remain penniless. There are all kinds of unexpected emergencies and unplanned tragedies to deal with in our daily lives. Therefore, while spending, we may look to our عافیت and save for difficult times.  
 
I may further add that the over all picture of an economic system is not based on this verse. It is Verse: 9/60 that gives basic outline of how the economy of a society would manage its resources and take care of its have-nots. There would always be rich people in a society, middle class people, as well as poor ones. That’s the only natural way given man’s immensely diverse temperaments and conduct. Yes, humanistic societies take proper care of their poor and destitute ones and make provisions to fulfill their needs. That’s what is called ZAKAT.  
 
Kindly throw more light on the subject.  
 
God bless you.  

Comments by: Mubashir Syed On 17 October 2010Report Abuse
Dear Aurangzaib and all, Dr QZ's explanation was for present and past tense of question asked by Bro Momin. Which i felt reasonable after replacing past to present or future tense.  
 
To the main Agenda as referred by you 9:60 while doing homework before commenting happen to look allama pervez translation and it looked like process and guidance of sadaqat is given with respect to system and not for an individual.  
 
In fact 9:59 made me positive to my understanding of economic system which says  
"How good it would have been for them if they had felt satisfied with their due share given to them by the Divine Order and said that their association with this Order was enough for them, that in the future also they would continue to get their share and would refer their needs to the Divine Order."  
 
Please post back to improve or correct my understanding……  
 
Thanks,  
Mubashir Syed

Comments by: momin On 17 October 2010Report Abuse
Dear Mubashir Syed,  
Why not to go for establishment of a welfare state where state takes care of human  
needs. Secondly, can any one tell in how much time the book was revealed and why in that much time?  
Allama Pervez was of the opinion that the law of distribution of property was for interim period when  
establishment of welfare state was in progress. What is the concept now?  
 

Comments by: SS On 17 October 2010Report Abuse
Dear All  
 
The new interpretation of verse 2/219 ." and they ask You what they ought to spend. say: "That which is beyond Your needs." has created further confusion. Dr Sb has argued that if we translate the word یسألونک as “they ask you”, it would mean that our prophet was not fully prepared to answer questions , and whenever he was asked something ,he used to wait for Wahee to answer the question. Further he quoted an example of the head of the department. It sounds absolutely correct  
 
Now if we take the meaning of یسألونک as “ they will ask.“ then what about the questions asked after the prophet, particularly the questions asked at this time, in the age of communication, economy, computers, technology, etc.  
 
If at this point the argument is given that the Quran was completed in the lifetime of the Prophet and now it carries complete principle of spending successful life. Question arises that at the time of the prophet, there was complete message of God, the prophet available to ask questions and get answers from God through Wahee and there was the communication between God and mankind through the prophet. So it was a much better time to get solutions then it is today.  
 
Now a point about the comments of Mr. Aurangzeb dated October 17, 2010 copied below:-  
 
“THEY WILL ASK YOU (O PROPHET) WHAT/HOW MUCH THEY MAY OPEN UP FOR SPENDING (انفاق ). TELL THEM THAT THEY SHOULD KEEP IN VIEW THEIR SECURITY/SAFETY/FUTURE (العفو – عافیت ).  
(Dr. Sahib may kindly correct me if I haven’t grasped the essence of things).  
 
This is the best I can construe by introducing the new discovery. At least to me this looks much more rational that the old one that said : “Spend all that is over and above your requirements”. I mean, nobody may like to remain penniless. There are all kinds of unexpected emergencies and unplanned tragedies to deal with in our daily lives. Therefore, while spending, we may look to our عافیت and save for difficult times.  
 
This interpretation has completely done away with the concept of welfare states. It gives the impression that Quran does not give any concept of a welfare state. The welfare state takes care of all kinds of unexpected emergencies and unplanned tragedies in daily life of an individual living in that state.  
Secondly the Western countries have created welfare states without any guidance from Quran and God. Should we condemn those welfare states because they have been created in contradiction of Quranic injunctions.  
 
Shariq  

Comments by: momin On 17 October 2010Report Abuse
Dear Mubashir Syed,  
 
Shariq has raised very pertinent questions and a good review over this thought provoking situation.  
This brain storming by Doctor Qamer is commendable. We will learn.  
 
If the Prophet knew(wahi) everything at the time of his appointment by God than it means the whole book was revealed  
at once. Is that so. If answer is no. Than Doctor Sahib is not justified unless we accept that the book was written  
by the Prophet and is not a word of God in the sense we traditionally believe. What is your opinion?

Comments by: Mubashir Syed On 18 October 2010Report Abuse
Dear Shariq, i totally agree with you, Welfare state should take care of unexpected emergencies. With my current understanding i feel there is no scope of individuality in a welfare state. Verse 9 : 59 as pasted above seems inline with this concept. I am optimistic that we might inshallah come to a logic conclusion by end of this discussion.  
 
Bro Shariq i think no one here is against western system administration for their citizens. They have got better system but do you think its immaculate (perfect). In America still 14% are below poverty line and there might be many issues like capitalism, discrimination, biological warfare, crime, exploitation etc. Western administrations as far as i know are independent of any intrusion from any religion, they learnt from their mistakes and formed a system. Don’t you think there is sill huge scope of improvement in Western system as well ?  
 
Dear Momin, yes i strongly feel welfare state should be responsible for secutiy and safety of all individuals.  
I personally dont mind whether Quran was revealed at once or in span of 23 years. There could be a possibility that it might have been revealed in those 13 years of mecca before formation of first islamic state ( just suggesting a possible theory )  
 
Dear Aurangzaib, above verse can be for a system than referring to an individual. State spending every thing which is beyond the need of safety/security of state itself.  
 
What was prophet doing in his first 40 years was he following Gods of meccans and was a part of all rituals with family and society or was he striving to find possibilities of reality ?? Most concepts might already have been in his mind for which Wahi gave a confirmation.........another possible theory?  
 
Sometimes things look very easy after grasping the concept, sometimes i feel we humans are not thankful as we might have directly or indirectly learned from divine revelations but after knowing we may unintentionally say whats the big deal we might have learnt without any divine guidance. What say??  
 
I think every one here is for same cause and having same erg of understanding to make a difference to society but with different approach and style.  
 
Note : Its just the beginning just one word we jumped to so many conclusions within no time!! Lets see how we shape up after covering all possible verses. With no intension to offend or defend please correct me if am wrong………..  
 
Thanks,  
Mubashir Syed.  

Comments by: saleem On 18 October 2010Report Abuse
Welfare state, yes! Why not understand this concept through an analogy of a family wherein the father is its head. He may have children (not of equal capacities and age) . The greatest beneficiary is the the one who is the youngest, the one who is in the process of development. Taking on further this analogy, the father/mother are not going to treat their children unequally just because one is a computer engineer, the other a carpenter and the third who is yet to earn. However their needs may be addressed accordingly like the engineer requiring highly sophisticated tools in comparison with the carpenter son who may require simple tools.Just magnify this analogy to a still bigger family ie., the state I think the cobwebs would be removed to a great extent.  
 
There is yet another example in the honey bee which actually stores the extract of its hard work in the honey comb(state) and does not consume it selfishly. Here we are enlightened about the distribution/specialization of work. Some are involved in the construction of the comb, some are responsible for fertilization of the eggs and yet some are responsible for the collection of honey.  
 
By all these examples taken directly from nature which according to Quran are also SIGNS what i am given to understand is this: All the basic necessities of life would be provided by the state and in return each individual would contribute according to one's own capabilities.  

Comments by: aurangzaib On 18 October 2010Report Abuse
Dear Mubashir Sayed,  
 
I am sorry I was not specific about Verse 9/60. It was actually a supplementary comment made while discussing Verse 2/219. I usually try not to post lengthy comments unless it becomes imperative and inevitable. I see now that it has invited quite a few questions and does require a detailed elaboration.  
 
Our original topic was the further clarification of 2/219 after induction of the new meanings of العفو , as you kindly asked me to do.  
 
When its running translation was given, (see the quote):  
 
“THEY WILL ASK YOU (O PROPHET) WHAT/HOW MUCH THEY MAY OPEN UP FOR SPENDING (انفاق ). TELL THEM THAT THEY SHOULD KEEP IN VIEW THEIR SECURITY/SAFETY/FUTURE (العفو – عافیت ).  
(Dr. Sahib may kindly correct me if I haven’t grasped the essence of things)”,  
 
it BRUTALLY SHATTERED one of the fundamental concepts of a most cherished sacrifice demanded of a society’s members – THAT OF GIVING OUT ALL THAT YOU HAVE A SURPLUS OF – THAT WHICH YOU HAVE SAVED, for the noble cause of collective welfare of the society.  
 
Of course, it caused A NATURAL DISILLUSIONMENT to surface among friends, resulting in difficulty in accepting the new concept. Some thought that it ruined the basis of a welfare society. They are not wrong since we have been told with authenticity by Allama Pervaiz, Moulana Modudi and numerous scholars that it was the انفاق in the proportion of العفو that actually formed the basis of a welfare society.  
 
Convictions inherited from ancient times always change with great difficulty. Particularly, when we have a heap of arguments brought forth by several scholars in favor of such convictions. So, العفو in its new perspective of عافیت is to remain a burning question in our minds for some time to come. Of course, we may continue to ponder upon it with a spirit to arrive at a consensus.  
 
It was in this scenario that I suggested: What, if 2/219 was actually not the basis of our welfare society, from the very first day? What if it was just a prudent advice to be observed in matters of spending? What if we have been given misinformation on what it meant? What, if after witnessing its radically altered interpretation now, we may look to other verses that still assure the existence of a welfare system within our Quranic concepts?  
 
And that was why I suggested Verse No.9/60.  
 
To proceed with our research, firstly, the old concept of Sadaqaat has to be relegated. Sadaqaat are no longer construed as CHARITIES. Sadaqaat are, in reality, TAXES. (Reference Dr. QZ).  
 
AND Verse: 9/60 must be seen in conjunction with Verse: 9/103 which says :-  
خذ من اموالہم صدقۃ تطہرھم و تزکیہم بہا ۔ و صل علیہم ۔ ان صلِوتک سکن لہم  
“IMPOSE & RECEIVE TAX ON THEIR WEALTH AND INCOMES. BY THAT YOU WILL PURIFY THEIR CHARACTERS AND EVOLVE THEM TO A HIGHER DEGREE. AND DO APPRECIATE AND ENCOURAGE THEM (I.E., GIVE THEM INCENTIVES). VERILY, YOUR APPRECIATION AND ENCOURAGEMENT IS A SOURCE OF COMFORT FOR THEM”.  
 
The Verse highlights :-  
 
** Taxes are the main source of Revenue, as ordained.  
** Riches and wealth will not be banned. (Because everyone has a right to become rich by sheer hard work.)  
** SURPLUS MONEY WILL NOT BE EXTRACTED BY FORCE FROM THEM THRU the traditional concept of العفو-  
** ON THE CONTRARY, IT WILL BE TAXED through proper legislation.  
** If no surplus were allowed, no one will grow rich and the question of SADAQAAT will die its own death.  
 
Now Verse:59/7  
لا یکون دولۃ بین الاغنیاء منکم  
“WEALTH MAY NOT CIRCULATE AMONG THE WEALTHY OF YOUR SOCIETY EXCLUSIVELY”  
 
It simply means that the Government would ensure that too much accumulation of wealth with a particular class of society may not take place. The more one earns the more taxable his earning will be.  
 
AND FINALLY TO VERSE: 9/60  
It reads : انما الصدقات للفقراء و المساکین و العاملین علیہا و المئولفۃ قلوبھم و فی الرقاب و الغارمین و فی سبیل اللہ و ابن السبیل۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔  
(THOUGH THERE ARE OTHERS WHO ARE DEMANDING THEIR SHARE FROM THE TAXES صدقات - earlier Verse ) BUT TAXES ARE TO BE SPENT FOR THE WELFARE OF EXCLUSIVELY THESE CATEGORIES :  
1. FAQEER (hungry & destitute)  
2. MASKEEN (whose workability is hampered)  
3. AAMILEEN (WORKERS PERFORMING THE DUTY OF COLLECTION)  
4. MO’ALLAFATUL QULUB (WHOSE HEARTS ARE TO BE BROUGHT TOGETHER)  
5. FIR RIQAAB (FREEING THE CAPTIVES)  
6. GHARIMEENA (THOSE IN DEBT)  
7. FI SABEEL ALLAH (ANY OTHER WELFARE WORK)  
8. IBN AS-SABEEL (THOSE STRUGGLING ON WAY TOWARDS RIGHT PATH)  
 
Now, Eight categories described to be supported from the Tax Revenue.  
I believe it is enough of WELFARE. See more WELFARE:-  
 
Verse: 41/10:  
(All the earthly bounties) to be shared by all the needy equally.  
Verse: 70/24:  
And they are those in whose wealth there is a recognized right for the needy and the deprived.  
 
And look, Class difference will always be there, based on natural inclinations as well as diversity of tendencies, aptitudes and tastes or preferences of people:-  
 
Verse: 46/19:  
لکل درجات مما عملوو لیوفیھم اعمالھم و ھم لا یظلمون  
The Status of each one will be determined according to the level of his performance. All will be rewarded as per their tasks/duties; and merit will not be violated. (I need not expand here).  
 
I think, we should bear in mind that Welfare Money is always the bare minimum providing for the rudimentary necessities of life. Anyone desirous of better standard of living, must go out and work. Had the welfare grants been lucrative, majority of populations would resort to living on welfare. It will spoil them.  
 
AND welfare money is for the poor, the jobless, the ones in distress. It is often a small percentage of an affluent society. BUT, if thru العفو you keep extracting all surplus/saving from the entire population, will you not render the whole nation penniless and deserving the welfare money? Wouldn’t the affluence of society disappear? WHO will be then paying the wealth/income tax which is mandatory as per Quranic injunctions?  
 
Many more questions are arising in my mind. But I am tired. It is already more than enough. I entrust the subject into your good hands.  
 
God bless you.  
 

Comments by: Dr. Qamar Zaman On 18 October 2010
 
Dear all members ,  
It is really heartening to see the discussion going on with healthy criticism .  
First thing to is to clearify that العفو if translated as العافیت does not negate a welfare state .  
The root letters have words used in our daily conversation e.g. معاف کرنا، استعفی this might clarify the meanings .  
In قاموس الوحید few of the meanings given are quoted below ,  
عفا الا ثر۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔ نشان متانا  
عفا ۔الشیٔ۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔ ۔پوشیدہ ہونا  
عفا عن ذنبہ ۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔ جرم کو معاف کرنا  
اعفی اللہ فلا نا ۔۔۔۔۔۔۔ اللہ کا عافیت عطا کرنا  
استعفی مکلفہ ۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔پابند کرنے والے سے سبکدوشی چاہنا  
العافیہ ۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔تندرستی، مکمل صحت، خیریت ،سکون قلب و جسم  
And last but the top most  
العفا ۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔آزاد و خود مختار ریاست  
So dear friends The verse 2-219 demands that whatever we spend , it should be for the welfare of the people whether through the state or by oneself . because a welfare state is responsible for the عافیت i.e. welfare of the people .  

Comments by: Mubashir Syed On 19 October 2010Report Abuse
Dear Aurangzaib, with 2/219 Interpretation which was reasonable it was to convey Messenger being well versed with situation handling. It was specific to Bro Momin’s query which is neither supportive nor unsupportive to the main Agenda( as per my understanding).  
 
I think welfare state is for sure a Haqq no doubt or denial of that in any case. So lets not get that into discussion here if needed we can open a new question.  
 
Coming back to main Agenda of scope of private property, may I humbly disagree with you. Verse 2/219 by replacing with “they will ask” and “security/future “ cant this be a guideline for System but not an individual??  
 
Aurangziab : It was in this scenario that I suggested: What, if 2/219 was actually not the basis of our welfare society, from the very first day? What if it was just a prudent advice to be observed in matters of spending? What if we have been given misinformation on what it meant? What, if after witnessing its radically altered interpretation now, we may look to other verses that still assure the existence of a welfare system within our Quranic concepts?  
 
Mubashir : I was pretty clear with your comments, I got exactly what u were trying to convey without any confusion.  
 
References of Quran for supporting personal luxury and private property has to pass through test of analysis as with our ever growing understanding many verses came up with different essence. So these might come up with better interpretation as well.  
 
Aurangzaib : And look, Class difference will always be there, based on natural inclinations as well as diversity of tendencies, aptitudes and tastes or preferences of people:-  
 
Verse: 46/19:  
لکل درجات مما عملوو لیوفیھم اعمالھم و ھم لا یظلمون  
The Status of each one will be determined according to the level of his performance. All will be rewarded as per their tasks/duties; and merit will not be violated. (I need not expand here).  
 
Mubashir : I feel it should be difference of Rank which is based on effectiveness of individual in a system.  
 
 
 
Aurangzaib : I think, we should bear in mind that Welfare Money is always the bare minimum providing for the rudimentary necessities of life. Anyone desirous of better standard of living, must go out and work. Had the welfare grants been lucrative, majority of populations would resort to living on welfare. It will spoil them.  
 
Mubashir : For those who can work but remain being supported by system by not putting in efforts should have a shameful Rank. Mechanism to keep pushing and to keep a check on those people to work can be designed.  
 
Aurangzaib : AND welfare money is for the poor, the jobless, the ones in distress. It is often a small percentage of an affluent society. BUT, if thru العفو you keep extracting all surplus/saving from the entire population, will you not render the whole nation penniless and deserving the welfare money? Wouldn’t the affluence of society disappear? WHO will be then paying the wealth/income tax which is mandatory as per Quranic injunctions?  
 
Many more questions are arising in my mind. But I am tired. It is already more than enough. I entrust the subject into your good hands.  
 
Mubashir : I agree these are all valid logic reasoning but we might have logic reasoning other way round too. Cant we think of a system analogy with an administration of a FAMILY?  
How can we justify these laws for a primitive human who stayed in jungle by forming a system??( Without concept of money)  
 
Brother, I am too small to take this responsibility without help from all rational minds with their thought process over the possibility. Once for a while can we keep apart our current understanding and all references to think for either sides with a clear/plain mind? Then for surely lets get back and see what Quran has to say.  
 
Note : Was about to post comment and saw Dr Qamar's above comment and was happy to see that 2/219 can be for state.( smiley )  
 
Thanks,  
Mubashir Syed.

Comments by: moazzam On 19 October 2010
Dear Mubashir Syer : 1st thing is TAALAO ILA KALIMATUN SAWAUN BAINANA WA BAINAKUM,that is the establishment of welfare state(where human rights should be protected).So the state can design any economic system ,keeping in view the betterment of mankind, to address the question of private property ownership(the %age of there income & sources) in such a system, plz consolidate verses 66/19 with the verse 43/32 .To deny the private ownership in any economic system you have to bring solid proof from quranic verses OR the sound economic logics in support of ur version,which satisfy the quranic verses 43/32--35 and 16/35 OR any successful socioeconomic model without personal ownership.Also remember,that, quran left the state free to design any economic system( whether according to your vision), so we should be careful to impose the restrictions over the state,in design of there economic model which suited to that society of that era.If u are economist, then while designing the system plz observe the quranic values,and manipulate with the MACRO/ MICRO controls.

Comments by: pervez On 19 October 2010Report Abuse
 
Dear Moazzam,  
I think Allama Pervez's vision of "NIZAM-I-RABOOBIAT" is the ideal of Quran. He also wrote a  
book having the same title. No doubt Quran has not fixed any system but at the same time it has set ideals  
to be achieved. The mission of messenger is,  
 
1. To evolve his own society, make reforms, keeping in view ground realities, give laws for interim period,  
like law of distribution of property given in Quran.  
 
2. Give vision and set ultimate targets for humanity to achieve.  
 
3. Quran must have been revealed over a period of time not known correctly for provision of continuous  
guidance to prophet.  
 
4. Everything in Quran can not be beyond time and space. I may be wrong.  
 
5. I must appreciate brother momin,Mubashir Syed and especially brother Shariq with a request to spare  
some time and keep contributing here your valuable thoughts.  

Comments by: momin On 19 October 2010Report Abuse
 
Dear Pervez,  
 
You wrote,  
" 4. Everything in Quran can not be beyond time and space. I may be wrong."  
 
If I take you as correct than how come any Prophet be the last Prophet? Because ground realities keep  
changing, as you yourself have said that mission of a messanger is to,  
 
"1. To evolve his own society, make reforms, keeping in view ground realities, give laws for interim period,  
like law of distribution of property given in Quran".  
 
Ground realities keep changing, isn't it? if some one now wants to reform our society. Where are the divine  
laws for interim period keeping in view ground realities of today? What is the concept of last prophet? Why  
every religion considers his Prophet as last. Is it because of its scholars(ulema and Mushaikh) whose bread  
and butter comes at stake.  
 
If I take you wrong. Than Why laws for interim period. It is beyond time and space. Time should not matter  
nor ground realities.  
 
My purpose is not offend you. I want to generate discussion to find more and more about less and less. As  
I confessed many times, I am just a lay man who thinks what wise don't. My apologies in advance.  
 

Comments by: aurangzaib On 19 October 2010Report Abuse
Dear Mubashir Syed.  
 
Please see Guideline for Participants, Article No.6:  
 
“No kind of rigidity, extremism, air of authority, religious edicts or final words are employed.”  
 
By not insisting upon our revolutionary concepts vis-à-vis QURAN, we at Aastana are offering participants a different trap of stimulus that successfully serves to drag them out of their comfort zones and tunnel visions of thought through inviting them to explain their terms. It is a mystical method to bring people out of their mechanical responses and let them dive deep into the oceans of thought and perception.  
 
I think playing this role is really necessary today especially among our dogmatic intelligentsia. I often say that mullahs are not to be found just among religionists but secular and atheists as well. When one starts claiming that one knows whatever could possibly be known and becomes obstinately immovable------one is mullah. And, I think, our function should be being goad-flies to such mindset.  
 
The happy results of Aastana’s policy are quite visible in the above discussions; and in people like you and others joining this Blog.  
 
God bless you.  
 

Comments by: pervez On 19 October 2010Report Abuse
 
Dear Momin,  
You have made my head heavy, I am holding it in both hands and thinking. I don't know  
what to say at this very moment. Someone else might answer you. I agree with brother Aurangzeb we  
should come out of our comfort zones.

Comments by: momin On 19 October 2010Report Abuse
Dear Aurangzeb,  
Thanks so much, this time I see a very positive change in you. Thank you in deed, I was  
expecting remarks like, shallow thought pattern etc. I see a different Aurangzeb today who is not using air  
of authority and advising others to do the same. GOOD SIR.

Comments by: aurangzaib On 19 October 2010Report Abuse
Brother Momin,  
 
You have been free in your assumptions my dear, and you still are free to pass personal remarks. We humbly perform our duty of setting the record straight where we find discrepancies of thought and conclusions. And we discuss the ideas presented, either favorably or otherwise, not personalities. That should not be deemed a source of irritation and our good intentions may not be misinterpreted. Negative conclusions may not be drawn in haste, rather, much more time be given to assess someone. You already know, one can always disagree here, but let it be as may happen within a family. We are not changed but follow a constant pattern. Perhaps your perception of us is improved with time. We should be grateful to the Almighty for that.  
 
God bless you.

Comments by: moazzam On 20 October 2010
Dear Momin: According to SUNNATULLAH rasool (imam) in their nation,in their language will be continued till the last day. As i wrote in my previous post about ALKITAB that,we should consider the names of personalities and places (written in quran ) as the ISME TAUSIFI(attribute),also the stories written in quran ,in a sense that, "these are the divine examples set down for the guidance of mankind beyond time and space, same as the GA Pervez considered the QISSA E ADAM O IBLEES .Keeping the following references in view ,i think this book is beyond time and space,the similes would be implemented in the present situation of that era,for example today's FIRAON,today's MUSA,today's haroot maroot could be determined by their attributes(wasf). FOR ELABORATION OF VERSES OF QURAN THERE IS NO NEED OF SHAN E NAZOOL. The IMAM E WAQT(rasool) will consult the quran and with the resembling examples will solve the present issues.Try to find out AAJ KA ZULQARNAIN,AAJ KA FIRAON,AAJ KA MUSAand AJJ KI BANI ISRAIL. Let me reproduce the previous post here under 1:- kindly go to the verse 2/2,2/44,2/53,2,87,2/113 (there are other 232 verses of Quran) where you will find the word ALKITAB (the book).after full concentration my inference regarding matter under question is ,that, same ALKITAB have been given to every rasool,which was revealed ALA QALB E MOHAMMAD(THE HKATIM ANNABIEEN).The name of rusul and all charecters (yahood,nasara,bani israil,yajooj majooj,haroot maroot)should be taken as the ATTRIBUTES,not as a proper noun. The names like maryam,mohammad,ibrahim,mosa,yahya,noha,saleh etc should be taken as an ISM E TAOSIFI. 2:- Go to the verse 15/9, the ZIKR,and QURAN is the same ALKITAB. See to the verse 7/145,7/150,7/154, 85/22,54/13 here we find the word LOH,this also means the ALKITAB/SUHOF.Now you cosolidate these all verses with respect to their context we conclude the protectection of ALKITAB. The actual thing is the mentality of the religious leaders in each era ,that they always try to devastate the divine message as per their wish, to get temporary benifits from the masses,and this process is still going on.Even the people left the alkitab behind them, plz see the verse"WAQALARRASOOLO YA RABBI INNA QAOMA ATTAKHAZOO HAZAL QURANA MAHJOORA.  
3 :-The verse 2/129 describes the duties assigned to rasool,it means any body who is performing the same ,falls in the categorg of rasool(imam). RASOOL / IMAM will remain in the societies till the dooms day.Go through 2/129,3/164,10/74,16/36,16/89,17/15,28/59,40/34,also the comments of opponents (non- believers)are the evidence ,that the rasools are not predestined supper humen see verse 17/94,25/41.The story of prophit Ibraheem verse 2/124, and the whole story of prophit musa along with prophit Haroon ,also vers7/124 ,20/13 shows the testing and selection criteria as a rasool/nabi(but there is difference between nabi & rasool)  
Date : 9/12/2010 >>View Detail  
 

Comments by: momin On 21 October 2010Report Abuse
 
Dear Moazem,  
I am considering and thinking on your approach of understanding. Let me take my own time to  
understand. Thanks so much for guidance.  

Comments by: Mubashir Syed On 28 January 2011Report Abuse
Dear Junaid, would request your opinion for the topic of discussion.  
 
Note : I think An economist can elaborate and design flow of economy based on final result which we want to achieve. Please make sure when you discuss with any economist to give him the picture of final result we want to achieve. ( This was my opinion and alas we found one(Junaid) who can give us a picture and enhance our thought process.)  
 
Thanks,  
Mubashir Syed.

Comments by: Junaid2 On 28 January 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
 
Does ideal economy has any scope for individuals to possess private property?  
 
Brother Mubashir, thank you for including me in such an important discussion. I have done a lot of head scratching on this particular topic and that of usury. Although my knowledge is too inadequate but I would still like to share my understanding.  
 
I would like to start with the basic concept that "Ownership belongs to Allah alone"  
 
(7:128) ... Remember that the earth belongs to Allah. He grants it as a heritage to His servants according to His laws. And the ultimate end belongs to the upright.  
 
(7:129) ... Moses said, “Your Lord will annihilate your enemy, and you will inherit the earth. Then He will see what kind of works you do.  
 
"Man is a custodian on earth and cannot be the owner."  
This doesn't mean that you cannot buy a piece of land. Yes you can buy or sell land but it's worth cannot be determined using the general price index. What I mean to say is that we need to differentiate between VALUE and PRICE when we are talking about sale or purchase of land. Land can be purchased for personal usage only. You can purchase land, you can construct a building, add fixtures and fittings and you can utilize it for residential or commercial purpose (with as additional option of adding partners in purchase of land for commercial use).  
 
It is to be noted that registration of sale and purchase OR taxation of any sort is not according to the Islamic economic principles. I am not talking about the fake principles of today's Islamic economy, rather I mean the true principles given in Quran. Also to be noted that Lending or renting out Land / Building for the purpose of income generation is totally unacceptable because it is a type of usury.  
 
Let me explain it a bit further;  
 
According to the true Islamic principles, Human Energy (Labor) is the only means of generation of wealth whether it's in the form of Physical Labor or Mental efforts.  
 
What is the concept of Wealth?  
 
As per my analysis, wealth means return of labor in form of something having intrinsic value. It can be Gold, It can be Silver, Platinum or any other precious metal. Return can also be a commodity but this method of exchange i.e. commodity for labor is quite ancient and not applicable according to the modern economic advancements.  
Human Labor invested and returned in form of something of value, leaves no room for usury.  
 
What is usury?  
 
After a lot of brain storming, I can now feel quite comfortable to share my concept regarding usury and it is;  
 
Anything in excess of Human effort invested, (Either Physical or mental) is USURY or RIBA.  
 
There is another method of exchange called Trade. Trade means exchange of two commodities of equal value. Either a direct exchange of commodities (Generally known as barter) or using a medium of exchange which again should be something of intrinsic value. Trade is further classified as an exchange "ON SPOT" and "time based".  
In either case, there is no room for an unequal exchange and any difference between the value of two commodities being exchanged will be considered as USURY.  
 
For example; Lets assume there is a land and two farmers are working on it. They start with seeding, then plowing, and taking care of the crops and finally harvesting the crops. These crops (for example wheat) is fully grown and ready to be consumed but still needs to be transported to the market. Efforts will be needed to transport the crop to the market and later on a proper marketing will be required to sell it to the end user. Lets say two more people gets involved in the process of transport and marketing. Now the buyer (end user) will pay the price for all the efforts involved; i.e. labor of two persons who worked from seeding to harvesting, then labor of one who transported and finally the labor of one who marketed the crops according to their respective shares. Anything paid by the end user in excess to the efforts involved by four people will be considered as USURY.  
 
There is another scenario where the end user with the consent of all four who invested the labor, agrees to pay the price after a specific period of time instead of paying on the spot. He can do this but strictly without any difference in the value of two commodities i.e the crops and the medium of exchange. Any difference in the value of two commodities being exchanged due to the time factor will be USURY.  
 
Now after purchasing the wheat, the end user can further invest his labor to convert it into bread or something consumable, and can sell it as "seller". Again all the efforts involved in converting wheat to bread, transportation and then marketing will be paid by the "purchaser" (end user). This is how the cycle goes on.  
 
Another important aspect of Islamic economy is ZAKAT, which is giving away anything which is surplus or in excess of ones need (Free hand is given to us in terms of determining our needs). Everything earned by investing labor if it is more than what you need (not what you want), then it is to be given away to the Islamic CENTRAL REPOSITORY or BAIT UL MAAL. Central repository being operated by proper public representatives, responsible for further distribution of wealth among those who are unable to meet the basic needs. Furthermore this wealth is to be utilized for provision of public services and social security while the custodians of central repository are accountable to all those who are contributing ZAKAAT.  
 
Concept of Zakaat is not just restricted to wealth alone, rather it can also be contributed by helping some one with labor, for example helping a person to build the shelter by investing physical labor of by carrying his/her load to earn him/her something in exchange or by educating children in spare time.  
 
Due to the system based on human labor as the primary means of wealth generation accompanied by the concept of ZAKAT, value of land automatically becomes void because you cannot use the land without investing labor. Those who can afford, can buy their homes and those who can't will be compensated by the government. However a laborer can purchase the piece of land and can construct it further depending on its usage if he has sufficient money to invest (he can also add partners to share the investment plus labor) but he cannot rent it out to earn anything. Obviously he wont be required to pay any tax or registration fee because he is already contributing in ZAKAT.  
 
Remember: No fiat money and no usury. Only metal or something of intrinsic value to be used as currency which remains under the custody of central repository.  
I have have worked out a modernized concept of creating a central date base (ORACLE or TERADATA) for registering laborers and issuing a kind of debit card to them (linking it to central repository) in order to use it for their everyday economic activities.  
 
Brothers and sisters, with my limited knowledge, I have tried to explain the concept in the shortest possible way.  
Please feel free to ask any questions in this regard.

Comments by: Mubashir Syed On 28 January 2011Report Abuse
Dear Junaid, thanx for your comment and simple words used to convey your understanding. I would like to disucss it further in a healthy fashion by asking few questions. Please dont consider my comments as extremism, air of authority, final words or rigidity. Just consider me as an enthusiastic child who wants to drill down to ground level.  
 
Junaid : Remember: No fiat money and no usury. Only metal or something of intrinsic value to be used as currency which remains under the custody of central repository.  
I have have worked out a modernized concept of creating a central date base (ORACLE or TERADATA) for registering laborers and issuing a kind of debit card to them (linking it to central repository) in order to use it for their everyday economic activities.  
 
Mubashir : Would like to know more about it.  
 
My first request :  
1.Can you please comment a bit with fundamentals of Economics to achieve smooth flow without exploitation as a final result.  
 
2. How to decide realization of any effort ? I think i know who, would like to know how from economics point of view.  
 
3. Money or value of goods depreciates/ appreciates with time, how to handle this in a transaction. For example you lend me 1 lac today will it not be unfair if i return 1 lac after 25 years as money depreciates. ( Or there might be a possibility with good design that NO ONE MIGHT NEED TO BORROW?)  
 
4. How to decide value of Goods. In your above example how to decide its worth? Based on supply and demand?( Supply demand might again involve exploitation....what say?  
 
5. Do you think great economist ( Professional not biased from any religion) of world can design a flow BASED ON DESIRED RESULTS for their clients(WE) ?  
 
Note : I have requested for your valuable comments on another thread which is on same lines. Hope to hear from you on that as well.  
 
Thanks,  
Mubashir Syed.  

Comments by: Junaid2 On 28 January 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
 
Brother Mubashir, I was expecting some questions on my post but you have asked almost everything in few lines :)  
 
It's good though, coz your questions will help me to reassess my thoughts and analysis which are entirely based on theories I understood from Quran with the help of my professional experience.  
 
I think it will take a lot of time plus effort to explain everything in detail. However, if you could please tell me what is the level of your understanding in terms of economic fundamentals, Banking and finance, It would become much easier for me to use relevant approach to explain everything in a convenient and shortest possible way.  
 
I would also request you to please give me a little bit of time so that I can address each question in an appropriate manner and in detail. You will have to give that to me anyway coz I guess I have already used my quota of 5 comments and perhaps I wont be able to get back before 24 hours.  
 
Please remember that there is a difference in terms of textbook theories and practical experience. At times you may find theoretical scenarios which may not be applicable on the basis of ground realities. Also that the factors such as corruption, mismanagement or human error are often not considered while defining text book theories.  
 
Just to avoid any misunderstanding, I would like to mention that I am a business analyst plus a subject matter expert and my field of expertise is banking and not economics. Most of my research on Islamic system is from banking perspective so I may not be able to provide you 100% professional and practical information pertaining to economy though I will try not to leave anything unanswered.  
 
 

Comments by: Mubashir Syed On 28 January 2011Report Abuse
Dear Junaid, please consider me a student and you as trainer. Please feel free to use any approach of explanation we all are good students(smiley) and if we dont understand anything we would ask.  
 
Maybe you might be able to judge our level of understanding from above posts. Would request you to go through Brother Aurangzaib and Dr QZ's comments to have understanding from Quran with references which might help.  
 
Riba i think is not interest, Please raise a question for Riba as far as i know its making money by corruption.( It would be good idea to initiate a question on riba and have scholarly explanation.)  
 
I have got links of cute little clips on utube to give a naive level understanding on How bank makes money. Would love to share if someone is interested. Would like to know how should be an Islamic bank. Would request you to explain possible Islamic banking mayb by initiating another Question. ( Real but not current day islamic banking which works on same flow but under religious cover.)  
 
Thanks,  
Mubashir Syed.  

Comments by: Junaid2 On 30 January 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
 
Mubashir : Would like to know more about it.  
 
Dear brother, As per my understanding, fiat money in form of paper currency is the basic factor causing temptation to lend and earn more through interest.  
We need to study the history of paper money so that we could understand how this is linked with interest based lending. Parer money was invented by Goldsmiths of Europe who established one of the first bank in Europe centuries ago. They started with providing safekeeping services for people who wished to deposit gold coins against deposit receipts. Later on these receipts became the mode of exchange for goods and services (The earliest form of bank money). Acceptance of receipts, reduced the need of actual gold coins in daily exchange and due the same reason, Stocks of coins started accumulating in the vaults. An irresistible temptation for Goldsmiths to lend idle Gold and to earn extra money and keeping minimum of the deposits in vaults to meet the expected demands for redemption of receipts. Soon these Goldsmiths realized that there was no need to lend the actual gold since their receipts were already being accepted as "money", so they printed more receipts and started using these receipts as a replacement for gold in lending.  
Fact of the matter is, that paper money having no intrinsic value was actually created to promote interest based lending and this practice needs to be discontinued in order to remove usury from our economy. My idea of creating a data base for Human labor actually represents the same theory. I can discuss it in detail once you have a clear understanding of what USURY is;  
 
(2:275) On the contrary, those who eat Riba (usury), in greed of money, run around like someone who has been bitten by a snake. They claim that trade is like usury. But God has permitted trade and forbidden usury. One to whom the clear Admonition has come from his Sustainer, must abstain from taking usury forthwith.  
 
RIBA and TRADE are used together in the above quoted verse. These two terms are used together because there is something common between them.  
 
What could that common factor be?  
 
The answer is simple;  
 
When two commodities being exchanged are equal in VALUE, it is known as TRADE.  
On the other hand, when there is a difference between the values of two commodities being exchanged, the amount of difference is RIBA.  
Likewise the value of a commodity is in a direct proportion to Human Labor involved in it's production. This means when there is a difference between Human Labor invested and the amount paid in return, it is also RIBA (Anything which is more than the human effort involved).  
 
The same principle of inequality when applied to the values of commodity and return in form of fiat money, it simply gives us the understanding that the exchange (paper money against commodity) is totally unfair.  
 
Let me share the concept of production in terms of micro economics;  
 
In microeconomics, production is the conversion of inputs into outputs. It is an economic process that uses inputs to create a commodity for exchange or direct use. (This is a text book definition of production) It clearly shows that input means (Raw material plus human skill and effort invested) while output means (commodity produced in form of finished goods). Please note that there is another value involved in the above mentioned definition (input) and that is for Raw material. Normally, this raw material is generated through a natural process using human labor (for example cotton which is grown by a farmer). This simply means that a production is nothing but a collective output of all the human efforts involved.  
Unfortunately, in terms of capitalist economic system this factor of human labor is of least importance while total focus is on capital invested for production (Exploitation of Human labor). Islam totally negates this concept and the main focus of true Islamic economic system is on Human labor as primary means of production.  
 
There is a lot of confusion regarding the concepts of RIBA when we read the earlier works on economics by Abu Hanifa or the later research by Ibn e Khaldoon. These people have done nothing but created unnecessary confusion.  
I'll try to discuss all this in detail once I get brother aurangzaib's comments on all what I have wrote.

Comments by: Mubashir Syed On 30 January 2011Report Abuse
Dear Junaid, i think RIBA needs to be understood with its most ratioal understanding until now it has got more to what we actually know. I would request Bro Aurangzaib to throw some light on RIBA for us. Things will get much clear after explanation of RIBA by Bro Aurangzaib. Am optimistic that your research would be much easier.  
 
For current banking system please allow me to provide a link from utube for all participants which explains what all you said in above post.  
 
There are 5 parts below link is for the first part  
 
LINK- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVkFb26u9g8  
 
 
Please follow link to know what I understand by Money until now.  
 
http://aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?SID=23&QID=667  
 
Thanks,  
Mubashir Syed.  

Comments by: Junaid On 02 February 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
 
While we are waiting for brother aurangzaib's input, let me share some more details regarding concepts of profit and human labor (As I have understood so far);  
 
Lets take the example of cotton which is produced as a result of natural process and human efforts. The very first steps are seeding, plowing of land, taking care of the crop until it grows and finally harvesting. All these steps involve human efforts and according to the modern times, we can say these steps involve fuel and machinery (tractors, seeders and harvesters etc.). Then comes another factor which is transport of crop to the market which obviously involves human effort and of course fuel and machinery according to the modern times. Final step is marketing of crop in order to sell it to end-user which again needs human efforts and of course a proper market premises plus latest marketing techniques and equipment (according to current standards). As per my understanding, human effort (i.e. seeding, care taking, plowing, harvesting, transportation and marketing) is to be considered as the primary factor. All these efforts are to be paid by end user who is actually the buyer.  
 
Please note that Quran prohibits the use of synthetic chemical fertilizers in crops. These chemicals effects the natural growth and are dangerous for human health. (A concept of Organic farming; Foods claiming to be organic must be free of artificial food additives, and are often processed with fewer artificial methods, materials and conditions, such as chemical ripening, food irradiation, and genetically modified ingredients. Pesticides are allowed so long as they are not synthetic). [Please read 55:07 and 55-08 for balance of Nature]  
 
Now comes the most important point where two additional elements are involved in this transaction. These elements are "fuel" and "machinery". Fuel again s produced through human efforts, therefore it has to be paid ultimately by end user. To explain it further, I would say that all the technical and physical efforts involved in producing fuel are paid by farmer when he uses it to run his machinery and later on by transporter when he uses his vehicle to transport. End user will have to pay all these expenses when he purchases the cotton. According to this equation, the price of cotton (which has been obtained as gift of nature) is human efforts involved in production of fuel, production of crop, transportation of crop and finally marketing of crop.  
"Equipment and Machinery" should be considered here as capital investment. Fuel producers have their own machinery, Farmer has his own machinery, transporter has his own vehicles, marketing guy has his own premises with all modern equipment. How did they get all these? This perhaps is the basic factor which distinguish between Islamic and Capitalistic system. As per Islamic concept, a central repository (BAIT UL MAAL) established on the basis of ZAKAAT and SADAQAAT is responsible to lend money to all these people (This loan is free of all kinds of Interests). It is the responsibility of government (based on the constitution of Quran) to provide funds in form of loan and later on it's the responsibility of borrower to repay this loan gradually through his earning by investment of labor. Another aspect which needs to be considered here is advancements in terms of technical abilities or specialization of labor. This facility of advanced technical education again is to be provided by Islamic government from BAIT UL MAAL or central repository. Provision of public services for example water, electricity and sewerage etc. are also the responsibility of Islamic Government.  
 
We can extend this concept by using the example of further utilization of the above mentioned crop (cotton) to produce textile. The crop has already been purchased by end user and now end user becomes "seller" and he transports this crop (cotton) and sell it to the new end user using his efforts in form of marketing. The new end user who purchases this crop, pays for human efforts involved in terms of transportation and marketing. Now this new end user becomes producer and he utilizes his efforts in form of labor to convert this cotton crop to textile. Concepts of equipment, machinery and technical expertise have already been mentioned above. One important point to be noted here is that Textile producer can be many individuals who can use combined efforts in form of (joint partnership) to produce finished goods. This concept of joint partnership is applicable almost everywhere while Quran completely negates the concept of Corporation which is an entity formed on the basis of "limited liability" (I can explain this concept further if needed).  
 
(2:134) But the Divine law stresses individual responsibility. Every person is accountable only for one´s own deeds. (A clear contradiction to the concept of limited liability)  
 
Likewise, Services are nothing but human efforts. For example a doctor or an engineer or lets say mason. They all provide services and are paid according to their efforts. They own the necessary equipment or machinery and they have technical expertise which are all financed by central repository and they pay off their (interest free) debts gradually from their earnings (return of labor).  
 
I don't know whether I was able to express my views clearly or not but this is what I have understood so far and according to this concept, there is no usury and no excessive profits yet everyone is happy and earning through his/her labor. On the other hand, freedom to work and diversity of fields of labor are the aspects which discourages monopoly and automatically provides freedom of choice. (Best deals I would say)  
 
Now few words on the concept of ownership of Land;  
If a man puts his effort into developing a piece of land, he should get “compensated” for this while someone who lets it go to rot would receive less recompense. Custody of the land should be to those who have put the effort into it, so if we do not call it "ownership" then we should use a term that stops others from taking it over, using the pretext that everything belongs to Allah.

Comments by: Junaid On 08 February 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
 
I would like to quote brother aurangzaib's comments on SADAQAAT from his post above;  
 
**  
(The Verse highlights :-  
** Taxes are the main source of Revenue, as ordained.  
** Riches and wealth will not be banned. (Because everyone has a right to become rich by sheer hard work.)  
** SURPLUS MONEY WILL NOT BE EXTRACTED BY FORCE FROM THEM THRU the traditional concept of العفو-  
** ON THE CONTRARY, IT WILL BE TAXED through proper legislation.  
** If no surplus were allowed, no one will grow rich and the question of SADAQAAT will die its own death. )  
By aurangzaib  
 
Now I would like to share the definition of TAX;  
 
To tax (from the Latin taxo; "I estimate") is to impose a financial charge or other levy upon a taxpayer (an individual or legal entity) by a state or the functional equivalent of a state such that failure to pay is punishable by law.  
A tax may be defined as a "pecuniary burden laid upon individuals or property owners to support the government … a payment exacted by legislative authority. "Tax "is not a voluntary payment or donation, but an enforced contribution, exacted pursuant to legislative authority" and is "any contribution imposed by government … whether under the name of toll, tribute, tallage, gabel, impost, duty, custom, excise, subsidy, aid, supply, or other name.  
 
Dear brother aurangzaib, I'll be obliged to have the answer to my question below;  
 
First of all, I completely agree with you that SADAQAH is a procedure of collection of wealth from the rich people of society and the method has clearly been defined in (9:60). One who earns more, will pay more!  
 
However, having seen the definition above, can we actually use this term "TAX" to define "SADAQAH"?  
Isn't "TAX" a contradiction of the concept of "No compulsion in Deen"?  
Isnt "TAX" (by definition) a contradiction of the following statement ?  
(SURPLUS MONEY WILL NOT BE EXTRACTED BY FORCE FROM THEM THRU the traditional concept of العفو) by aurangzaib  
 
What I mean to say is that "TAX" perhaps is not the best suitable word to describe SADAQAH. (as per my understanding)  
Is there any word which can be used here? Or would you still like to go with the same word "TAX"?  
 
Blessing of Allah be with you.

Comments by: Abdun On 09 March 2011Report Abuse
Salaam,  
 
I have read the thread and Junaid has used ideas from my website to explain a society to a degree, what people fail to grasp is natural law, a simple and inalienable right of every man/woman born, your religion can not remove it, your government cannot remove it, but they hide it and hope you never discover it.  
 
Natural laws are very simple concepts, they underpin all law, no matter where you exist on the planet.  
 
The first is if you have agreed to do something, then you must do it, this is the basis of all contracts.  
 
The second is you cannot encroach upon another man/woman or their property.  
 
Thats the LAW, what is lawful, in contrast to what is legal.  
 
You have other rights in the Law, you have a right to contract without limit, but you can only contract with another man/woman, not a legal fiction such as state, corporation, or any other abstract fictional entity created through legal fictions.  
 
You can only own what you yourself create, this means the earth and all the resources of the earth are allodial.  
 
Allah created all those resources and the earth itself, so the only owner is Allah, under natural law you have allodial rights of use; you have a personal right of use and a communal right of use. This means you cannot buy and sell the property of Allah, only what you yourself create.  
 
Tax, legislation, usury, renting, subjugating sovereignty are all examples of clear encroachments within natural law, I notice most on this thread are in favour of breaking natural law, by imposing their system of subjugation upon those around them through taxation, state ownership of resources, legislation, while all these concepts are crimes upon humanity.  
 
There are 5 points required to establish a court, one of those requirements is natural law, no court applies it as they use the Law of the See, Admiralty law, the See is the holy See of the Roman Catholic Church, the founder of the modern Roman law system.  
 
Under their Roman system a solider can murder a family and is absolved of responsibility because they were given permission by their sovereign, but under natural law both the solider and the representative of the legal fiction of the sovereign, are guilty of murder and their lives are forfeit.  
 
The concept of state is based upon the ownership through the legal fiction of Estate, the Earth itself is without borders, men create them to control and subjugate others, don't fall into the Jinn (psychopath) models of society, investigate the simple concepts of the Qur'an.  
 
Allah is the owner of the earth and all the resources of the earth. (You only have rights of use)  
 
Allah is the ONLY sovereign. (You cannot call yourself Muslim while you have a King, Prince, president, any representative who makes decisions on your behalf, as you are fully responsible for those decisions)  
 
Allah is at war with usury. (the theft of the fruits of someones labour)  
 
Abdun Nur

Comments by: Junaid On 10 March 2011 Edit DeleteReport Abuse
Salaam;  
 
Brother Abdun Nur, It's so good to see you after a long time. Hope you are doing well.  
 
I would like to request you to please read the following posts and add your valuable comments.  
 
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?SID=29&QID=1087  
 
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?SID=29&QID=1114  
 
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?QID=243#COM4859

»«
OTHER QUESTIONS ON
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Dear Moazzam bhai regards, Quran me ya to saza ke dar se ya reward ke laalach se naik kaam ke liye kaha jata hai.Kya Insan itna gaya guzra hai ki wo in two baton ke alawa Naik kaamon ki taraf aa nahi sakta? Question by: Mohd Danish From INDIA (SAHARANPUR) On 19/05/2013
 
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Brothers and sisters of aastana team,Quran rejects democracy. What is political system of "mumlaqat-e-elahaya" Question by: Hamid Gul From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 26/02/2016
 
Why not blow life into lifeless aastana site by putting questions concerning life and find answers through scientific discoveries instead of fixing ourselves in theology ? Question by: Hamid Gul From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 26/02/2016
 
Why should we limit ourselves to Quran while searching for truth, when Al-kitab also includes science/nature ? Science +Wahi = Al-kitab. Question by: Hamid Gul From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 02/03/2016
 
When did modern State came into being and how were people living in anarchy ? Let us ponder ? Question by: Hamid Gul From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 04/03/2016
 
"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly and bad people will find a way around the laws. " Plato Do we need laws? Question by: Hamid Gul From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 04/03/2016
 
Why can't Mother Nature itself be viewed as the Creator and It's knowledge be viewed as Wahi ? Question by: Hamid Gul From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 05/03/2016
 
What is the future of family institution in the Modren Civilization ? Question by: Hamid Gul From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 05/03/2016
 
Salam every one , what is the best QUESTION/ANSWER to the atheists about the God existence ?and what is Quran says about GOD (himself ),thanks Question by: kanju swat From UNITED KINGDOM (LONDON) On 21/03/2016
 
Only forms of thoughts exist ,matter doesn't , why a soul(higher form) decides to enter into a body which is a form existing at lower level ? Question by: Hamid Gul From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 10/05/2016
 
Is there any evidence in the concept of reincarnation from any sources of truth ? Question by: Hamid Gul From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 10/05/2016
 
Any update on the book ,(the truth about soum) please? thanks, Question by: kanju swat From UNITED KINGDOM (LONDON) On 18/05/2016
 
Sura 56 Aya 57 نَحْنُ خَلَقْنَاكُمْ فَلَوْلَا تُصَدِّقُونَ {57} Question by: Hamid Gul From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 21/05/2016
 
Eid-ul-Fitr, Any reference from Quran regarding celebration of Eid-ul-Fitr , kindly share to examine the matter in the light of Quran , as to when , why and how it should be celebrated Question by: Hamid Gul From PAKISTAN (KARACHI) On 03/07/2016
 
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