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TRANSLATION OF QURAN
BY DR. QAMAR ZAMAN
Translation Status
آیات
سورۃ
نمبر
1-7 الفَاتِحَة -1
1-286 البَقَرَة -2
1-200 آل عِمرَان -3
1-176 النِّسَاء -4
1-120 المَائدة -5
1-165 الاٴنعَام -6
1-206 الاٴعرَاف -7
1-75 الاٴنفَال -8
1-129 التّوبَة -9
1-109 یُونس -10
1-123 هُود -11
1-111 یُوسُف -12
1-43 الرّعد -13
1-52 إبراهیم -14
1-99 الحِجر -15
1-128 النّحل -16
1-111 بنیٓ اسرآئیل / الإسرَاء -17
1-110 الکهف -18
1-98 مَریَم -19
1-135 طٰه -20
1-112 الاٴنبیَاء -21
1-78 الحَجّ -22
1-118 المؤمنون -23
1-64 النُّور -24
1-77 الفُرقان -25
1-227 الشُّعَرَاء -26
1-93 النَّمل -27
1-88 القَصَص -28
1-69 العَنکبوت -29
1-60 الرُّوم -30
1-34 لقمَان -31
1-30 السَّجدَة -32
1-73 الاٴحزَاب -33
1-54 سَبَإ -34
1-45 فَاطِر -35
1-83 یسٓ -36
1-182 الصَّافات -37
1-88 صٓ -38
1-75 الزُّمَر -39
1-85 المؤمن / غَافر -40
1-54 حٰمٓ السجدة / فُصّلَت -41
1-54 القَمَر -54
Read Now


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ARTICLES
QURAN FEHMI
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Dear sir ,  
Please direct me towards some links , where from I can get meanings of whole Sura No.12 ( Yousf ).
Add Your Comments  Question by: M ASLAM On 30 September 2011
Comments by: naeem sheikh On 30 September 2011Report Abuse
Dear Brother M Aslam! Find here under the ELABORATION OF SURAH ALYOUSUF presented by Brother moazzam.***it is reproduced here for your convenience.  
Please continue with my previous post." In Surah Yousuf "IMRAA" doesn't mean Wife, rather a group of his close companions, who tried to topple the government of Aziz/Malik though the mutiny prepared by them. His IMRAA invited Yousuf to take over the control of government (ruling), but he refused to become a part of this mutiny.  
The key to understand this story in its true sense is the proper understanding of terms QAMEES and IMRAA.  
Read the following terminologies before proceeding further.  
1) قَمِيصِهِ = Qamees al amarah wal wilayah, taking a highly respectable status  
2) قَدَّ = appropriate measurement, planning.  
3) مِن دُبُرٍ = In absence, at his back.  
4) مِن قُبُلٍ = in presence, in front of him.  
5) اشْتَرَاهُ مِن مِّصْ = He bought him from the lower level  
6) السُّوءَ = Act of evil  
7) الْأَبْوَابَ = Many suitable options, Haza shein le babatika means this thing is most suitable for you  
8) غَلَّقَتِ = Enforced, Ghallaqahoo means he enforced him, he created chaos to him,  
9) نِسْوَةٌ = Weaker people  
10) امْرَأَةُ الْعَزِيزِ A group of close companion of Aziz/ Malik  
11) فَتَاهَا = an highly intellect young among the group  
12) اسْتَبَقَا الْبَابَ = The group came forward to act upon a plan( one of the option)  
13) بِأَهْلِكَ = With your followers  
14) الْفَحْشَاءَ = the anti Islamic ideology  
15) غَلَّقَتِ = Enforced/ created chaos  
16) أَكْرِمِي مَثْوَاهُ = the honorable status  
17)Be damin kazib =With false easy way(short cut)  
17) جَآؤُوا عَلَى قَمِيصِهِ بِدَمٍ كَذِبٍ = they approached easiest false way to snatch his respectable status (expected wali ahad), successor hood.  
18) قَطَّعْنَ أَيْدِيَهُنَّ = With drew their support ( from Malik)  
19) سِكِّينًا = Calm  
Let me interpret (the sense) the story verse by verse as under.  
 
وَقَالَ الَّذِي اشْتَرَاهُ مِن مِّصْرَ لاِمْرَأَتِهِ أَكْرِمِي مَثْوَاهُ عَسَى أَن يَنفَعَنَا أَوْ نَتَّخِذَهُ وَلَدًا وَكَذَلِكَ مَكَّنَّا لِيُوسُفَ فِي الْأَرْضِ وَلِنُعَلِّمَهُ مِن تَأْوِيلِ الْأَحَادِيثِ وَاللّهُ غَالِبٌ عَلَى أَمْرِهِ وَلَـكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ النَّاسِ لاَ يَعْلَمُونَ 12/21  
And the one who bought him from lower level said to his IMRAA"give him respectable status among you”. Perhaps he will benefit us, or we will adopt him as a son(the successor/Waliahad)." And thus, We established Joseph in the land that We might teach him the interpretation of AHADITH (events)And Allah is predominant over His affair, but most of the people do not know.  
 
12/22  
وَلَمَّا بَلَغَ أَشُدَّهُ آتَيْنَاهُ حُكْمًا وَعِلْمًا وَكَذَلِكَ نَجْزِي الْمُحْسِنِينَ  
And when Joseph reached maturity, We gave him judgment and knowledge. And thus We reward the doers of good.  
 
12/23  
وَرَاوَدَتْهُ الَّتِي هُوَ فِي بَيْتِهَا عَن نَّفْسِهِ وَغَلَّقَتِ  
الْأَبْوَابَ وَقَالَتْ هَيْتَ لَكَ قَالَ مَعَاذَ اللّهِ إِنَّهُ رَبِّي أَحْسَنَ مَثْوَايَ إِنَّهُ لاَ يُفْلِحُ الظَّالِمُونَ  
And IMRAA, in whose BAIT(ideology) he was, sought to seduce him. They(IMRAA)created chaos/enforced him in different possible options of mutiny (to take over the control, and said the status of MALIK is for you(you deserve it)." He said, "[I seek] the refuge of Allah. Indeed, he is my master, who gave me respectable status. Indeed, wrongdoers will not succeed."  
 
12/24  
وَلَقَدْ هَمَّ  
تْ بِهِ وَهَمَّ بِهَا لَوْلاَ أَن رَّأَى بُرْهَانَ  
رَبِّهِ كَذَلِكَ لِنَصْرِفَ عَنْهُ السُّوءَ وَالْفَحْشَاءَ إِنَّهُ مِنْ عِبَادِنَا الْمُخْلَصِينَ  
And they (IMRAA) certainly determined [to seduce] him, and he would have inclined to their plan, had he not seen the BURHAN( proof of his Lord). And thus [it was] that We should avert from him evil and immorality. Indeed, he was of Our chosen servants.  
 
12/25  
وَاسْتَبَقَا الْبَابَ وَقَدَّتْ قَمِيصَهُ مِن دُبُرٍ وَأَلْفَيَا سَيِّدَهَا لَدَى الْبَابِ قَالَتْ مَا جَزَاءُ مَنْ أَرَادَ بِأَهْلِكَ سُوءًا إِلاَّ أَن يُسْجَنَ أَوْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ  
And they(IMRAA)forwarded to act upon one of their plan, which was arranged in his absences(which he refused), their plan was disclosed to their MASTER. They (IMRAA immediately turned their position) and said, "What is the recompense of one who intended evil for your(Ahlaka) followers, but that he be imprisoned or a painful punishment?"  
 
12/26  
قَالَ هِيَ رَاوَدَتْنِي عَن نَّفْسِي وَشَهِدَ شَاهِدٌ مِّنْ أَهْلِهَا إِن كَانَ قَمِ  
يصُهُ قُدَّ مِن قُبُلٍ فَصَدَقَتْ وَهُوَ مِنَ الكَاذِبِينَ  
 
[Joseph] said, "It was they who sought to seduce me." And a witness from their own companion testified. "If his QAMEES is arranged(planed) in his presence/willingly then they(IMRAA) has told the truth, and he is of the liars.  
12/27  
وَإِ  
نْ كَانَ قَمِيصُهُ قُدَّ مِن دُبُرٍ فَكَذَبَتْ وَهُوَ مِن الصَّادِقِينَ  
But if his Qamees is arranged/planed in his absence ( from the back), then she has lied, and he is of the truthful."  
 
12/28  
فَلَمَّا رَأَى قَمِيصَهُ قُدَّ مِن دُبُرٍ قَالَ إِنَّهُ مِن كَيْدِكُنَّ إِنَّ كَيْدَكُنَّ  
عَظِيمٌ  
 
So when Aziz enquired and found his Qamees was planed/ arranged in his absence (from the back), he said, "Indeed, it is your(Imraa) plan. Indeed, your plan is great.  
12/29  
يُوسُفُ أَعْرِضْ عَنْ هَـذَا وَاسْتَغْفِرِي لِذَنبِكِ إِنَّكِ كُنتِ مِنَ الْخَاطِئِينَ  
Joseph, ignore this. And, [Imraa], ask forgiveness for your sin. Indeed, you were of the sinful."  
 
12/30  
وَقَالَ نِسْوَةٌ  
فِي الْمَدِينَةِ امْرَأَةُ الْعَزِيزِ تُرَاوِدُ فَتَاهَا عَن نَّفْسِهِ قَدْ شَغَفَهَا حُبًّا إِنَّا لَنَرَاهَا فِي ضَلاَلٍ مُّبِينٍ  
And the general public (weaker people) in the city/ society said, "The Imraa of al-'Azeez is seeking to seduce their most intellect young; the (Imraa) has impassioned with love. Indeed, we seethem(Imraa) [to be] in clear error.  
 
12/31  
فَلَمَّا سَمِعَتْ بِمَكْرِهِنَّ أَرْسَلَتْ إِلَيْهِنَّ وَأَعْتَدَتْ لَهُنَّ مُتَّكَأً وَآتَتْ كُلَّ وَاحِدَةٍ مِّنْهُنَّ سِكِّينًا وَقَالَتِ اخْرُجْ عَلَيْهِنَّ فَلَمَّا رَأَيْنَهُ أَكْبَرْنَهُ وَقَطَّعْنَ أَيْدِيَهُنَّ وَقُلْنَ حَاشَ لِلّهِ مَا هَـذَا بَشَرًا إِنْ هَـذَا إِلاَّ مَلَكٌ كَرِيمٌ  
 
So whenthey( Imraa) heard of their scheming, they (Imraa) sent for them and prepared for them a meeting and made each of them calm by convincing with disclosing the matter before them." And when they apprehend with his (yousuf’s) attributes/guts, they greatly admired him andwith drawl their support to king, "Perfect is Allah ! This is not an ordinary man; this is none but a noble Makih(king).  
 
12/93 اذْهَبُواْ بِقَمِيصِي هَـذَا فَأَلْقُوهُ عَلَى وَجْهِ أَبِي يَأْتِ بَصِيرًا وَأْتُونِي بِأَهْلِكُمْ أَجْمَعِينَ  
Go with conscious of my this honorable status and make him understand( so that it may conceived in my father's mind) over his already built inference(for the relevant whole story) ,he will become seeing ( retrieve vision which I explained him in early days). And bring me your family, all together."  

Comments by: M Aslam On 02 October 2011Report Abuse
And , Sir, what about the dreams seen by:-  
1- Yousaf 12/4  
2-prisnors 12/36  
&  
3-Malak 12/43 ,  
Please explain.

Comments by: moazzam On 03 October 2011
Dear Aslam ! THE ELABORATION OF DREAMS WRITTEN IN SURAH ALYOUSUF  
Go through the following terminologies mentioned in the relevant verses.  
أَحَدَ عَشَرَ كَوْكَبًا=one civic society (Muaashra)  
الشَّمْسَ= The main controlling authority.  
الْقَمَرَ = Associative sub ordinate.  
رُؤْيَاكَ = your vision  
أَعْصِرُ = Extracting  
خَمْرًا = Hidden (concealed)  
أَحْمِلُ = Refusing  
رَأْسِي =My immediate head (Boss)  
خُبْزًا = lower level (false depressed)  
تَأْكُلُ = abide by with understanding.  
الطَّيْرُ = the most smart one  
فَيَسْقِي = will provide services  
فَيُصْلَبُ = will be rigorously punished  
 
 
1) Deam #1  
It is not evident from Quran that, Yousuf was a little immature boy. The vision of an highly wised intellect(youth) has been described ( who been closely accompanied with prophet)  
 
12/4 إِذْ قَالَ يُوسُفُ لِأَبِيهِ يَا أَبَتِ إِنِّي رَأَيْتُ أَحَدَ عَشَرَ كَوْكَبًا وَالشَّمْسَ وَالْقَمَرَ رَأَيْتُهُمْ لِي سَاجِدِينَ  
 
When Yousuf said to his father, "O my father, indeed i have a vision of a civic society(Muaashrah), the main authority and its associates all of them became submissive to the ideology i perceived with ( I saw them prostrating to me).  
 
12/5 قَالَ يَا بُنَيَّ لاَ تَقْصُصْ رُؤْيَاكَ عَلَى إِخْوَتِكَ فَيَكِيدُواْ لَكَ كَيْدًا إِنَّ الشَّيْطَانَ لِلْإِنسَانِ عَدُوٌّ مُّبِينٌ  
Said (the father): "My (dear) son! relate not thy vision to thy brothers, lest they concoct a plot against thee: for Satan is to man an avowed enemy!  
 
12/6 وَكَذَلِكَ يَجْتَبِيكَ رَبُّكَ وَيُعَلِّمُكَ مِن تَأْوِيلِ الْأَحَادِيثِ وَيُتِمُّ نِعْمَتَهُ عَلَيْكَ وَعَلَى آلِ يَعْقُوبَ كَمَا أَتَمَّهَا عَلَى أَبَوَيْكَ مِن قَبْلُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْحَقَ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ عَلِيمٌ حَكِيمٌ  
And thus will your Lord choose you and teach you the interpretation of narratives and complete His favor upon you and upon the family of Jacob, as He completed it upon your fathers before, Abraham and Isaac. Indeed, your Lord is Knowing and Wise.  
 
 
Dream #2  
12/36 وَدَخَلَ مَعَهُ السِّجْنَ فَتَيَانِ قَالَ أَحَدُهُمَآ إِنِّي أَرَانِي أَعْصِرُ خَمْرًا وَقَالَ الْآخَرُ إِنِّي أَرَانِي أَحْمِلُ فَوْقَ رَأْسِي خُبْزًا تَأْكُلُ الطَّيْرُ مِنْهُ نَبِّئْنَا بِتَأْوِيلِهِ إِنَّا نَرَاكَ مِنَ الْمُحْسِنِينَ  
 
And there entered the prison with him two young men. One of them said, "Indeed, [it is my inference] I have seen myself as investigating the hidden matter," The other said, "Indeed, I have seen myself (my inference is) that I would refuse my boss(immediate head) to abide by his false(degraded) command which has been abide by the most smart one. Inform us about its consequences and out results, indeed, we see you to be of those who do good."  
12/41  
يَا صَاحِبَيِ السِّجْنِ أَمَّا أَحَدُكُمَا فَيَسْقِي رَبَّهُ خَمْرًا وَأَمَّا الْآخَرُ فَيُصْلَبُ فَتَأْكُلُ الطَّيْرُ مِن رَّأْسِهِ قُضِيَ الأَمْرُ الَّذِي فِيهِ تَسْتَفْتِيَانِ  
O two companions of prison, as for one of you, he will provide the investigator’s sevices to his master(probing and concluding the matters); but as for the other, he will get the rigorous punishment and the most smart one will comprehensively abide by his boss(the immediate head). The matter has been decreed about which you both inquire."  

Comments by: Mujeeb On 03 October 2011Report Abuse
I astonished, its an amazing elaboration?

Comments by: M Aslam On 03 October 2011Report Abuse
I too.

Comments by: Nargis2 On 03 October 2011Report Abuse

To my understanding It is an excellent explanation. The Quran is NOT a book of myths, and why would everything related to the prophets be supernatural or paranormal, totally different than other human beings?  
 
If the prophet are not sent as an angel or super natural being in order to avoid submission by fear, why are they super humans in disguise, why are the prophets having super natural abilities but they are here in the body of human beings?  
 
They all had dreams and the dream came true,,,,, how does this make sense?  
 
Thank you so much brother moazzam


Comments by: Maniza On 03 October 2011
Dear Dr.Shiraz, Dawood and All,  
 
The reason I left Junaid/Amir Khan's statements was that it be possible for you to differentiate between haqq and batil. It is easy to accuse and point fingers. But it does not make it true!  
 
What is true that it is painful to see such men as Aurangzaib, Zubair and now Junaid stoop so low, accuse the founder of this blog, their former teacher and others whom they stood shoulder to shoulder with, and the accusing of women whom they stood by with and supported, a way of cowardly men and also accusing others when they cannot see their own failings. What do you want us to do? what retractions or allegations to we negatiate? What will be true if we do and what will be false?  
 
How do we satisfy such people? or the likes of dr.Shabbir who rubs his hands in glee and pounces on every importunate moment to attack dr.Qamar ????  
 
There will always be those who say they are with you but when they go to their sheyateen they say they are with them. This is the same with this blog, we will always find such frauds who will try to disrupt the ongoing work of this blog, what shall we do? should we close the blog? then it will be giving into the terrorists or do we try to continue our work and not let it be distrupted by such mad men.  
 
if ANY of you feel this blog is censoring or has been taken over by Myself or Nargis you are free to leave and have your own meanings and conjectures. It is up to you to leave, and yes this blog is no longer a playground, and yes this is no longer and open forum and yes posts will be deleted as soon as they appear. Some posts have disappeared due to server problem sory for that but others have been intentionaly removed. Any one who has a problem is free to leave.

Comments by: Mujeeb On 03 October 2011Report Abuse
Brother moazzam: Its some thing quit new,i think no one will endorse your elaboration including your Aastana colleagues(members). although Mr Naeem sheikh appreciated your work, but it is a bit hard to digest this unique translation of Surah Alyousuf. Please do not take it otherwise, it is agreeable to me as well, just i astonished you are the only one who think quite different than all quranic scholars.Can you justify your esteemed work grammatically and with lexicon.Please don't take ill,my differences with you at the issues "Alkitab and prophet hood"

Comments by: dawood On 03 October 2011Report Abuse
SA Maniza: It looks like you have removed Junaid's posts now, and along with it quite a few other posts are also missing? Is server problem related to a few specific posts? Probably, Adnan, System Admin can comment on this?

Comments by: moazzam On 03 October 2011
Mr Mujeeb! Yes, lexicon and grammar supports my translation(sense), any correction will be appreciated, please point out any wrong if you find with respect to the lexicon/grammatical rules or in observing the subject context. thanks.

Comments by: Nargis On 03 October 2011Report Abuse
SA Maniza: It looks like you have removed Junaid's posts now, and along with it quite a few other posts are also missing? Is server problem related to a few specific posts? Probably, Adnan, System Admin can comment on this?

 
 
SA Dawood, all posts containing personal attacks and lies against members should be deleted. I hope you agree on the sick method of attacking women's character in order to shut them up, should be deleted immediately.  
 
If guys are going to point at women's characters so to put them down in a debate, then no women will join the forum. not everyone is immune and ready to fight.  
 
If every member with a different opinion than the orthodox translation is going to be attacked and have to defend his views because he think different, then the members who think different than established beliefs, will not talk.  
 
The orthodox interpretations and translations because it’s making the Quran into a book of myths and fairy tales. Every prophet is a super human disguised in a human body of flesh and blood, and everything in the Quran is supposed to be sent through a miraculous way of interaction. However, those who disagree to the established thoughts and want to talk about them are welcomed to share thoughts and views so the students of the Quran have a chance to learn and gain knowledge.  
 
So those who join the forum can air their views without being called an illuminati agent, cheapsters or so on.


Comments by: Dr Shiraz On 07 October 2011Report Abuse
SA naeem sheikh  
 
I have done my share of research of Surah Yosuf as well, (only til vers 30 so far) and found your elaboration very interesting. Just a couple of point that I would like to discuss, if that would be OK for ohters.  
 
1) You have said that Qamees is to take a highly respectable status. I can see how it would fit in. But is Josef the only one in the Quran who have ever taken such a status? I notices that this word appears only in surah Yousuf and only in account of Yousuf. It is Always his Qamees. And please note that the "brothers" come back his Qamees in vers 18. I understood this verse as they stood with a long term denial to his high status. (but not sure if the root of "damo" is Dal-Mem-W or of it should have been Dal-Waw-Meem.  
 
Secondly, if it is his Qamees, then why are they prepearing it for him either on his back or his front? Qamees should be his, only when he accept it. What do you say? I see that you have put قَدَّ to mean appropriate measures, but should not "khalaq" be a better word for that? Is it possible to say that قَدَّ infact peans tearing appart or creating fractions?  
 
Like I understood it, his qamees is the bold and strong ideologi which he is representing. The imrata of Aziz (perhaps the priesthood) tries to conspire against this ideologi without him knowing. The same ideologi which later shall be sent back to his nation that shall cure their sight.  
 
As said, I have come to vers 30 so far, but just wanted to present some points of my understanding which is very similar to yours exept on some accounts.  
 
But even though, thank you very much for your post. It gave me a boost.  
 
Peace.

Comments by: Dr Shiraz On 07 October 2011Report Abuse
Dear moazzam.  
 
I humbly ask you to correct me as I am not critisizing you but only presenting my view.  
 
Would not الشَّمْسَ mean some specific thing that is colourful, in motion and unstable? Perhaps the part of the society which is in constant state of motion? The upper higher class of bussinessmen, politicians and merchants?  
 
Would not الْقَمَرَ mean the dominent ones, like the ones in power at the time?  
 
I totally agree upon your understanding of أَحَدَ عَشَرَ = one civic society (Muaashra)  
 
I have some problems with the family bonds in this story, hence please go through the following terminologies.  
 
Abo = Establisher  
Akho = People or groups of people with same motivation and goals.  
Kokab = Something clearly presented. Perhaps the common class which represents the society.  
Satan = Opposer  
Insaan/naas = People who live comfortabely with each other. Social man.  
 
12:4  
When Yousuf told his establisher "O my establisher, Indeed I have a vision of a unique civic society(Muaashrah), where the dominent ones, the higher upper class, and the common class, will all submitt to me (my ideology).  
 
12:5  
Said (the establisher), my inforcement, do not introduce your vision to your collegues (akhu), otherwise they may plot against your idea. For sure, such opposition is the avowed enemy of society (of equals).  
 
But as the next verse indicates, Yousuf got the Wahi after this and started to prepear the structure of such a society without revealing to much to others, until the point when he felt ready.  
 
Your reply is appreciated.  

Comments by: moazzam On 08 October 2011
Dear Dr Shiraz, You are right in your statement “I have some problems with the family bonds in this story”  
Let us rearrange as following.  
 
أَحَدَ عَشَرَ كَوْكَب =one civic society (Muaashra), كَوْكَب the common class which represents the society  
الشَّمْسَ= The main controlling authority (the dominant ones)  
الْقَمَرَ = the dominant ones sub ordinate ( sub controlling authority)  
Abo َبِي = Establisher, ancestor  
ى أَبَوَيْكَ= Your ancestors  
Akho = A specific person among the IKHWAH  
IKHWATIKAى إِخْوَتِكَ = The group of people with same motivation and goals (under the same establisher).  
 

Comments by: Dr Shiraz On 08 October 2011Report Abuse
Thank you Moazzam. I appreciate.  
 
Allow me to summerise my understanding so far.  
 
Yousuf tell the establisher (perhaps the authority of his) that he wants a society where all classes accept his ideologi.  
 
He gets told that this idea should not be shared with his peers (keeping in mind that the number of these "brothers" is not described, hence this could mean, in general, everyone) Because oppsition to such an idea is the true enemy (distance creator) among social humans.  
 
But regardless that, people get to know of this idea and starts to concider it. Some say that yousuf and his alike are potensially problem creators, since they will cause disturbance in the present order. They said that they are in fact a group, working together, while Yousuf is the one creating disturbance in the social balance. And that their abu is for sure wrong to favour him over them. Hence Yousuf should imediately be degraded in status and put among lover classes of society. Then some started to fear that he may cause a revolution in this lower class, hence the matter should be resolved in the authority class.  
 
The peers of yousuf asked the authority figure to leave this idea in their hands so they may exercise it first. But the establisher showed concern and said that he fear that they may fail in this task due to their negligence, and during that the concept of Yousuf may get gradually demolished due to caotic confusion.  
 
(Please note that the orthodox translation says that a wolf migh eat yousuf. We all should know that a wolf rearly hunt alone. Wolfs mostly hunt as group where they surround their pray and attack from all angles creating a caotic confusion.)  
 
But the peers ensured the Abu that they would take care of Yousuf. They tried, got confused and failed Now please note that when they report back and say that they "lost" Yousuf, they said that they are in fact sadiqeen in their statement. Quran has not at this point or any other called them liars for saying that. What Abu says back to them is that, they are getting confused over a very clear matter.  
 
But then Yousuf's idea gets appreciated elsewere, and there he gets the training to get the basics together.  
 
Please comment on the above.  
 
(If possible, please write a little more on the words Ash-shams and al-qamar. I am eager to learn) :)  

Comments by: bob On 08 October 2011Report Abuse
""""The Quranic terminology ALQAMAR has also been used as the satellite stats of an Empire (shams)  
The sajda as a worship is a religious term, where as the quranic term sajda means submission.The sajda to the kingdom and its satellite state is obvious from verses 41/37. Sajda to Ashamms and Alqamar means submission and obedience to the Empire and its satellite states. The context of the verses 41/37,12/4,74/32,75/8-9,84/18,91/2 supports the afore said stance. SHAQ AL QAMAR MEAN THE FALL OF RULING STELLITE STATE OF AN EMPIRE.""""

Comments by: moazzam On 09 October 2011
 
Dear Dr. Sheraz! Alshams, Alqamar and Sajda have truly been defended by Mr Bob.  
As far as Surah Yousuf is concerns, all characters including these both could be determined by the story itself, especially by focusing at verses 12/97-100.  
َالشَّمْسَ= AZIZ(MALIK).  
الْقَمَر= Sub ordinate authority next to king (who sentence yousuf in prison)  
كَوْكَب= IKHWATUN YOUSUF and the society’s members.  
12/97-98 قَالُواْ يَا أَبَانَا اسْتَغْفِرْ لَنَا ذُنُوبَنَا إِنَّا كُنَّا خَاطِئِينَ َ  
 
قَالَ سَوْفَ أَسْتَغْفِرُ لَكُمْ رَبِّيَ إِنَّهُ هُوَ الْغَفُورُ الرَّحِيمُ  
 
 
They said: "O our establisher ! ask for us forgiveness for our sins, for we were truly at fault.,." He said: "Soon will I ask my Lord for forgiveness for you: for he is indeed Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful  
12/99  
فَلَمَّا دَخَلُواْ عَلَى يُوسُفَ آوَى إِلَيْهِ أَبَوَيْهِ وَقَالَ ادْخُلُواْ مِصْرَ إِن شَاءَ اللّهُ آمِنِينَ  
Then when they entered the presence of Joseph, he provided a home for his parents with himself, and said: "Enter ye مِصْرَ إِن شَاءَ اللّهُ آمِنِينَ (all) in safety."  
12/100وَرَفَعَ أَبَوَيْهِ عَلَى الْعَرْشِ وَخَرُّواْ لَهُ سُجَّدًا وَقَالَ يَا أَبَتِ هَـذَا تَأْوِيلُ رُؤْيَايَ مِن قَبْلُ قَدْ جَعَلَهَا رَبِّي حَقًّا  
And he raised his parents high on the throne (of dignity), and they (َوْكَب= IKHWATUN YOUSUF and the society’s members)fell down in prostration, (all) before him. He said: "O my father! this is the fulfillment of my vision of old! Allah hath made it come true!  
 
 
 

Comments by: Dr Shiraz On 09 October 2011Report Abuse
Thank you dear Moazzam. Good reading regarding surah yousuf.  
 
Perhaps I should start a new topic regarding the word Qamar and how it suits in surah Qamar where my understanding is, that surah is talking about the downfall of the dominent ones. I dont see how that would mean sattelite states. And should not an empire consist of also sattelite states? Why should this be distinguished? When the sentral command falls, sattelite states gets resolved anyway.  
There can be more to it then I know, so once again, look at this as thinking out loud from my behalf and not critisism to what Bob said.  
 
Peace.  

Comments by: moazzam On 09 October 2011
Dr. Shiraz! No doubt, Alshams and Alqar are two different identities, and both has been used as a dominant characters or socioeconomic systems in human societies, 41/37 وَمِنْ آيَاتِهِ اللَّيْلُ وَالنَّهَارُ وَالشَّمْسُ وَالْقَمَرُ لَا تَسْجُدُوا لِلشَّمْسِ وَلَا لِلْقَمَرِ وَاسْجُدُوا لِلَّهِ الَّذِي خَلَقَهُنَّ إِن كُنتُمْ إِيَّاهُ تَعْبُدُونَ  
Among His Signs are the Night and the Day, and the Sun and the Moon. Do not prostrate to the sun and the moon, but prostrate to Allah, Who created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve.  
Whereas the required socioeconomic system need to be established is given in Alkitab  
39/69وَأَشْرَقَتِ الْأَرْضُ بِنُورِ رَبِّهَا وَوُضِعَ الْكِتَابُ  
 
There isdifference between these two identities as given following.  
1) Alshams is more powerful than Alqamar  
6/77 فَلَمَّا رَأَى الْقَمَرَ بَازِغًا قَالَ هَـذَا رَبِّي فَلَمَّا أَفَلَ قَالَ لَئِن لَّمْ يَهْدِنِي رَبِّي لَأَكُونَنَّ مِنَ الْقَوْمِ الضَّالِّينَ  
When he saw the moon rising in splendor, he said: "This is my Lord." But when the moon set, He said: "unless my Lord guides me, I shall surely be among those who go astray.  
6/78 فَلَمَّا رَأَى الشَّمْسَ بَازِغَةً قَالَ هَـذَا رَبِّي هَـذَآ أَكْبَرُ فَلَمَّا أَفَلَتْ قَالَ يَا قَوْمِ إِنِّي بَرِيءٌ مِّمَّا تُشْرِكُونَ  
When he saw the sun rising in splendor, he said: "This is my Lord; this is the greatest (of all)." But when the sun set, he said: "O my people! I am indeed free from your (guilt) of giving partners to Allah.  
2) The Alqamar, being sub ordinate of Alshams works on its behalf in its absence36/40 لَا الشَّمْسُ يَنبَغِي لَهَا أَن تُدْرِكَ الْقَمَرَ وَلَا اللَّيْلُ سَابِقُ النَّهَارِ وَكُلٌّ فِي فَلَكٍ يَسْبَحُونَ It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law).  
 
71/16 وَجَعَلَ الْقَمَرَ فِيهِنَّ نُورًا وَجَعَلَ الشَّمْسَ سِرَاجًا  
10/5 هُوَ الَّذِي جَعَلَ الشَّمْسَ ضِيَاءً وَالْقَمَرَ نُورًا  
It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be (its) light.  
 

Comments by: naeem sheikh On 09 October 2011Report Abuse
Brother Moazzam! thank you for enlighten us about the quranic terms Alshams and Alqamar being two characters or systems. But what about their relation with Allail wa annahar, as both terms comes along with afore said two terms most of the places ie وَمِنْ آيَاتِهِ اللَّيْلُ وَالنَّهَارُ وَالشَّمْسُ وَالْقَمَرُ لَا تَسْجُدُوا لِلشَّمْسِ وَلَا لِلْقَمَرِ and 36/40 لَا الشَّمْسُ يَنبَغِي لَهَا أَن تُدْرِكَ الْقَمَرَ وَلَا اللَّيْلُ سَابِقُ النَّهَارِ وَكُلٌّ فِي فَلَكٍ يَسْبَحُونَ

Comments by: bob On 09 October 2011Report Abuse
zulm, Darkness / Light, relief !

Comments by: bob On 09 October 2011Report Abuse
Brother Moazzam, thank you very much for your valuable efforts to explain surah Yusuf and Al Shams/ Al Qamar with references from the Quran, please correct my understanding as well.  
 
As we can see; Alqamr is a subordinated authority or the Qawm, whereas Al Shams is the supreme authority or supreme commander. We have seen the downfall explained at least five times in the Quran.  
 
The Quran is a book for human rights; it is basically arguments in favor of human rights. If so, then it is required that it provides arguments for both, the Al layil as well as ANnahar.To prove something is wrong, one has to know what’s wrong, and then reveal it with substantiation.  
 
When the arguments for wrong implementations are presented, then the next part begins, which is to prove what’s right.  
 
In order to implement a successful state of Deen, its originator must provide the necessary arguments covering Al layil and ANnahar, against the wrong doings zulmat (al layil) and in favor of ANnahar (human rights, equality).

Comments by: dawood On 10 October 2011Report Abuse
SA Br. Moazzam: I am trying to follow your interpretation of “ALSHAMAS=main controlling authority, and ALQAMAR=subordinate controlling authority.” I am however lost and would like your input and clarifications on the following:  
 
“Moazzam: Among His Signs are the Night and the Day, and the Sun and the Moon. Do not prostrate to the sun and the moon, but prostrate to Allah, Who created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve. (41:37)”  
 
In 41:37, The NIGHT -The Day and The SUN-The Moon are paired together and all are termed as Allah’s signs (ayat). First, what does AYAT mean here? Second, if the first pair is describing two periods, one being the DARK and the other being the Bright one, then shouldn’t the second pair be interpreted the same way? Third, the second pair is something that people can submit (sajudo) to, hence, the prohibition, don’t do this, rather submit to Allah. If it is assumed that “ALSHAMAS and ALQAMAR” are the main and subordinate controlling authorities then it must be true that these authorities are not working according to Allah’s order/commandments, hence the prohibition.  
 
“Moazzam: When he saw the moon rising in splendor, he said: "This is my Lord." But when the moon set, He said: "unless my Lord guides me, I shall surely be among those who go astray.(6:77)”  
 
The above indicates that Ibrahim saw a “subordinate controlling authority” in his life and he considered it to be his Rab. But, this subordinate controlling authority vanished during his life time, therefore, prompting him to retract his trust in this subordinate authority. First, this would suggest that Ibrahim did not ditch the “subordinate controlling authority” based on not following Allah’s commands, rather he got disillusioned due to the demise of this authority? How does the definition “subordinate authority” fit in here? Second, same thing is repeated with respect to the main authority ALSHAMAS in 6:78. This means he saw the down fall of both authorities in his life time. When you add (6:77) “When the night covered him over, He saw a star: He said: "This is my Lord." But when it set, He said: "I love not those that set." the picture becomes even more confusing. Now “KOKABA” is also vanishing in his life time. If “Kokaba=society’s members”, how did they vanish? Why would Ibrahim consider society’s people as his Rab?  
 
More later. Looking forward to your enlightening response.  

Comments by: moazzam On 10 October 2011
 
Dear Dawood! As we know that, the core message of Alkitab is (emphasis) to establish an Islamic state where mankind certainly gets their appropriate rights, with peace and harmony through Allah’s Nizam e raboobiyat (CALLED DEENE HANIF)  
LET US ANALYZE THIS NIZAM E RABOOBIYAT(deen e hanif) described in Surah Alanaam.  
6/70: Here Allah describing DEEN وَذَرِ الَّذِينَ اتَّخَذُواْ دِينَهُمْ لَعِبًا وَلَهْوًا وَغَرَّتْهُمُ الْحَيَاةُ الدُّنْيَا وَذَكِّرْ بِهِ أَن تُبْسَلَ نَفْسٌ بِمَا كَسَبَتْ لَيْسَ لَهَا مِن دُونِ اللّهِ وَلِيٌّ وَلاَ شَفِيعٌ  
Leave alone those who take their DEEN to be mere play and amusement, and are deceived by the life of this world. But proclaim (to them) this (truth): that every soul delivers itself to ruin by its own acts: it will find for itself no protector or intercessor except Allah:  
6/71: Taking about NIZAM RABBUL AALAMEEN, قُلْ إِنَّ هُدَى اللّهِ هُوَ الْهُدَى وَأُمِرْنَا لِنُسْلِمَ لِرَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ  
" Say: "Allah's guidance is the (only) guidance, and we have been directed to submit ourselves لِرَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ.  
6/72: Here it is order to establish the Nizam e Raboobiyat in human societies, وَأَنْ أَقِيمُواْ الصَّلاَةَ وَاتَّقُوهُ وَهُوَ الَّذِيَ إِلَيْهِ تُحْشَرُونَ  
6/73: Here it is made realize that the same nizam has been established in all the universe,  
وَهُوَ الَّذِي خَلَقَ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ بِالْحَقِّ وَيَوْمَ يَقُولُ كُن فَيَكُونُ قَوْلُهُ الْحَقُّ وَلَهُ الْمُلْكُ يَوْمَ يُنفَخُ فِي الصُّورِ عَالِمُ الْغَيْبِ وَالشَّهَادَةِ وَهُوَ الْحَكِيمُ الْخَبِيرُ  
It is He who created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): the day He saith, "Be," behold! it is. His word is the truth. His will be the dominion the day the trumpet will be blown(clash in two ideologies). He knoweth the unseen as well as that which is open. For He is the Wise, well acquainted (with all things)  
6/74: Here it is reminded to the ancestors not to follow any nizam( socio economic systems ) other than ALLAH’S ONE.  
وَإِذْ قَالَ إِبْرَاهِيمُ لِأَبِيهِ آزَرَ أَتَتَّخِذُ أَصْنَامًا آلِهَةً إِنِّي أَرَاكَ وَقَوْمَكَ فِي ضَلاَلٍ مُّبِينٍ  
6/75: Ibraheem comprehended this system from the universe( as Allah invites to watch/observe)  
وَكَذَلِكَ نُرِي إِبْرَاهِيمَ مَلَكُوتَ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَلِيَكُونَ مِنَ الْمُوقِنِين  
So also did We show Abraham the power and the laws of the heavens and the earth, that he might (with understanding) have certitude  
6/76: Ibraheeb also gone through the dark phase of his life (the process of guidance/hidayah),  
فَلَمَّا جَنَّ عَلَيْهِ اللَّيْلُ رَأَى كَوْكَبًا قَالَ هَـذَا رَبِّي فَلَمَّا أَفَلَ قَالَ لاَ أُحِبُّ الْآفِلِينَ  
When اللَّيْلُ covered him over, He saw a star(man made socio economic system) He said: هَـذَا رَبِّي "This is the nizam/socio economic system I am in search of." But when it set(not sustainable) He said: "I love not those that set..  
6/77: He analyzedالْقَمَرَ an other system ( seems a better one) he also rejected the same one.  
فَلَمَّا رَأَى الْقَمَرَ بَازِغًا قَالَ هَـذَا رَبِّي فَلَمَّا أَفَلَ قَالَ لَئِن لَّمْ يَهْدِنِي رَبِّي لَأَكُونَنَّ مِنَ الْقَوْمِ الضَّالِّينَ  
 
When he saw الْقَمَرَ, he said: "This is the system I am in search of." But whenالْقَمَرَ set, He said: "unless رَبِّيguide me, I shall surely be among those who go astray.  
6/78: When he analyzed an other man made best socioeconomic system الشَّمْسَ he rejected the same one due to its insustainability.  
 
فَلَمَّا رَأَى الشَّمْسَ بَازِغَةً قَالَ هَـذَا رَبِّي هَـذَآ أَكْبَرُ فَلَمَّا أَفَلَتْ قَالَ يَا قَوْمِ إِنِّي بَرِيءٌ مِّمَّا تُشْرِكُونَ  
When he saw thالشَّمْسَe he said: "This is the system I am looking for; this is the greatest (of all)." But when the الشَّمْسَset, he said: "O my people! I am indeed free from your (guilt) of مِّمَّا تُشْرِكُونَ mixing other systems with Allah’s one (by which the universe is successfully sustained)  
 

Comments by: Nargis On 10 October 2011Report Abuse

Thank you brother Moazzammm It is very clear from what Al Qamr and Al shams is. This is about societies and their systems, it is not the physical moon star and the sun. If this is the physical sun moon and Star, Abraham didnt have to pick out one by one as his Rabb,,as he must have seen the Star moon and sun go down BEFORE he as an adult were looking fo a Rabb.  
 
He saw the downfall of their systems,not being balanced..thats why the wrod Rabb is used,,,


Comments by: Nargis On 10 October 2011Report Abuse
Why would Ibrahim consider society’s people as his Rab? Dawood

Why would Ibrahim concider a Star moon or sun as his Rabb? How did he think they would sustain him? Is it more likely that a system adopted in a society will operate as the sustainer for its community, or would the sun rush down and feed people whenever they were hungry?


Comments by: Dr Shiraz On 11 October 2011Report Abuse
I think we all allready agree that ash-shams and al-qamar are not the sun and the moon. The discussion from my side is if we really are talking about international politics where shams is the central government and qamar the satelite states, as Bob suggested. If this is the case, then how does central authority and the satelite states wanish? By merging into a larger empire? Even if they do so, there shall still be a parlement, and local courts in cities and villages. On top of that, I do not see why a word with basic meaning of being dominent should be used for sattelite states.  
 
But if we are just talking about a society, small or large, national or international, and focus on the social classes, then the distinction in between can be eliminated by quranic laws,  
 
So when Abraham is questioning these social classes to be providers for the people, he is right to say that these classes do not provide for the citizens in the same fashion as a united and levelled isliamic constitution would have.  
 
Is this thinking so wrong? Please enlighten me further. :)  

Comments by: moazzam On 11 October 2011
Dear Dr. Shiraz! The analytical approach to reach at an appropriate conclusion after analyzing the available data, itself is one of the quranic value for a truth seeker, which has been described in the story of Ibraheem.  
It is up to us how we may apply it in the present scenario of socioeconomic/sociopolitical system(nationally and internationally)  
 

Comments by: Nargis On 11 October 2011Report Abuse

I agree with brother Moazzam  
 
Let say Ibrahim said: communism will be our desired sustainer,but when it faield,,not his is not my Rabb it didnt last  
 
Next if he thought Marxism is his sustainer,,but when it faield, he thought this is not my Rabb,  
And so on.  
 
We have had many systems and they have vanished,,,,We have had many economy systems and many vanished..read wikipedia


Comments by: Dr Shiraz On 11 October 2011Report Abuse
I agree with brother Moazzam as well, as well as I do with you Nargis. This is surely a statement regarding denial of accepting systems that do not last as ones Provider/Sustainer. This matter is clear to me. The matter wich is not clear, is what kind of systems the words shams and qamar represent. But I will keep your explainations in mind when I investigate the matter further.  
 
What is confusing me at this time is this:  
 
Abraham is saying that nither shams or qamar are appropriate systems as correct Sustainer. But on the other hand we have Yousuf who is saying that he desire both of these systems to submitt to him. Here the matter is not of exchanging them with something most appropriate, but to get these to submitt to same authority. Hence shams and qamar are not something that would get eliminated or defeated. (or at least I think so)  
 
Secondly, are these words infact ideologies defines one pleace and then repeated other places as words, or should the meanings as well be concideres according to the context? For instance, if Qamar means "dominent", should not then the context also define what it is that is dominent according to the current text?  
 
But once again, thank you for your input to my understanding.  
 
 

Comments by: bob On 11 October 2011Report Abuse
 
I guess submission to Nizame Raboyat of S Yusuf mean to surrender and accept it as the only arrangement for prosperity in a society. And the shams and Qamar must be recognized in each civilization, it is not one specific system of one era. The context defines the subject matter of course, and one has to perceive how it is operating at every place.  

Comments by: dawood On 12 October 2011Report Abuse
SA Moazzam:  
 
“Moazzam: Dear Dawood! As we know that, the core message of Alkitab is (emphasis) to establish an Islamic state where mankind certainly gets their appropriate rights, with peace and harmony through Allah’s Nizam e raboobiyat (CALLED DEENE HANIF)”  
 
I would like to agree with you that Allah wants us to establish a system that protects everyone’s rights. I however tend to disagree with your above point in which you are defining Nizam-e-Rabobiyat=Deen-e-Hanif. I find Deen-e-Hanif to being MUSLIM. Please see 2:132-133, 2:135, 3:67, 6:161, etc. This however may become a separate thread, so I am moving on with the present discussion. You may want to enlighten me on this, if you like.  
 
“Moazzam: 6/70: Leave alone those who take their DEEN to be mere play and amusement, and are deceived by the life of this world. But proclaim (to them) this (truth): that every soul delivers itself to ruin by its own acts: it will find for itself no protector or intercessor except Allah:”  
 
Brother 6:70 does not define the DEEN, it merely points out (1) leave those who don’t take deen seriously, (2) their own actions are sufficient to ruin them. Deen-e-Qayam is defined in 12:40: …the command is for none but Allah: He hath commanded that ye serve none but Him: that is the right religion (Deen-e-Qayam),..” This simply means Don’t make any partners in serving Him and serve Him alone.  
 
Deen-e-Hunfa is however paired with Wayuqeemu salat wa yutuzakat and Deen-e-Qayam in 98:5: “And they have been commanded no more than this: To SERVE ALLAH being sincere to Him, the Upright Deen (Deen Hunafa); to establish Salat; and to give Zakat; and that is the Religion Right and Straight (Deen-e-Qayam).” From this I infer that Deen-e-Qayam = the upright deen (deen-e-hunafa) is to serve Allah sincerely without partners, plus establishing socio-economic system. Although, I am not very clear about the phrase “Wa aqeemusalat wa aatuzakat”, I will stick with socio-economic system for the time being. This perhaps could be the closest one that you talked about as “Nizam-e-Raboobiyat.”  
 
“Moazzam: 6/71: Taking about NIZAM RABBUL AALAMEEN..”  
 
There is nothing in this verse that suggests ‘Nizaam Rabulalameen?”, please have a look at:  
(6:71) Say: "Shall we indeed call on others besides Allah,- things that can do us neither good nor harm,- and turn on our heels after receiving guidance from Allah? - like one whom the evil ones have made into a fool, wandering bewildered through the earth, his friends calling, come to us', (vainly) guiding him to the path." Say: "Allah's guidance is the (only) guidance, and we have been directed to submit ourselves to the Lord of the worlds.”  
 
“Moazzam: 6/72: Here it is order to establish the Nizam e Raboobiyat in human societies,..”  
“(6:72) To establish ASSALAT and to fear Allah: for it is to Him that we shall be gathered together.”  
 
This verse is only talking about “Aqeemusalat” and not the comprehensive phrase “Aqeemusalat wa Atuzakat.” If the latter is defined as Nizam-e-Raboobiyat, then the former being part of it is not exactly this.  
 
“Moazzam: 6/73: Here it is made realize that the same nizam has been established in all the universe,  
وَهُوَ الَّذِي خَلَقَ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ بِالْحَقِّ وَيَوْمَ يَقُولُ كُن فَيَكُونُ قَوْلُهُ الْحَقُّ وَلَهُ الْمُلْكُ يَوْمَ يُنفَخُ فِي الصُّورِ عَالِمُ الْغَيْبِ وَالشَّهَادَةِ وَهُوَ الْحَكِيمُ الْخَبِيرُ It is He who created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): the day He saith, "Be," behold! it is. His word is the truth. His will be the dominion the day the trumpet will be blown(clash in two ideologies). He knoweth the unseen as well as that which is open. For He is the Wise, well acquainted (with all things)”  
 
This verse is not talking about any NIZAM either. It is talking about Allah’s abilities to create and that His words are sufficient for something to happen, meaning His words make LAWS for everything to happen. To me the translation in brackets (clash in two ideologies) is an erroneous assertion. For this to be true, one must admit that the followers of the true ideology have the ability to do Kun Fayakoon. Can you please elaborate this further?  
 
“Moazzam: 6/74: Here it is reminded to the ancestors not to follow any nizam( socio economic systems ) other than ALLAH’S ONE.”  
 
Is ASNAAM-a- Aaliha any socio-economic system? Please look at 26:71 onward. It does not lend itself to be a socio-economic system, rather it looks like following man-made gods/orders/commands.  
 
“Moazzam: 6/76: Ibraheeb also gone through the dark phase of his life (the process of guidance/hidayah)… When اللَّيْلُ covered him over, He saw a star(man made socio economic system) He said: هَـذَا رَبِّي "This is the nizam/socio economic system I am in search of." But when it set(not sustainable) He said: "I love not those that set..”  
 
First, if KOKABA is a man-made socio-economic system, then ALQAMAR and ALSHAMS must also be man-made systems, and not subordinate and main controlling authorities, respectively.  
 
Second, if Haza Rabi is defined to be the NIZAM/socio-economic system one is in search of then “26:83 O my Lord! bestow wisdom on me, and join me with the righteous;” must also be translated as “ O Socio-economic System/Nizam bestow wisdom on me, and join me with the righteous.????”  
 
Third, if Allah is talking about a/the socio-economic system, then He must have provided full and complete details in His book about such a system as to: what it is? Which components it may have; how to set it up, etc. Do we find such details in the Quran? I would greatly appreciate that if someone could enumerate those details.  
 
Fourth, systems don’t just set or become extinct within a short time. Systems take generations to disintegrate. Therefore, Ibrahim witnessing the disintegration of at least three systems within his life-time is a distant possibility.  
 
Fifth, “6:79: For me, I have set my face, firmly and truly, towards Him Who created the heavens and the earth, and never shall I give partners to Allah" is unambiguously pointing out that Ibrahim refused to be one of the Mushrikin. This simply means, his nation was a mushrik one, meaning those who serve other than Allah. Is serving Allah=establishing a socio-economic system only?  
 
Sixth, please consider, “Among His Signs are the Night and the Day, and the Sun and the Moon. Do not prostrate to the sun and the moon, but prostrate to Allah, Who created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve (41:37).” If ASHAMAS and ALQAMAR are taken to be “Main” and “subordinate” authorities, then how people can refuse to Sujado to those authorities? Is this verse inciting people to do civil-disobedience to the existing authorities?  

Comments by: moazzam On 12 October 2011
Brother Dawood! please find here under the respective replies.  
“Moazzam: As we know that, the core message of Alkitab is (emphasis) to establish an Islamic state where mankind certainly gets their appropriate rights, with peace and harmony through Allah’s Nizam e raboobiyat (CALLED DEENE HANIF)”  
 
Dawood: I would like to agree with you that Allah wants us to establish a system that protects everyone’s rights. I however tend to disagree with your above point in which you are defining Nizam-e-Rabobiyat=Deen-e-Hanif. I find Deen-e-Hanif to being MUSLIM. Please see 2:132-133, 2:135, 3:67, 6:161, etc. This however may become a separate thread.  
 
Moazzam: Please read the context of the verses you referred in your post, for full understanding the subject matter, ie 2/127-138 and 3/64-67 and 6/161-164 .  
To comprehend the sense of “NIZAM E RABOOBIYAT” I described in my post, go through the following terminologies used in the said verses  
DEEN=SYSTEM OF LIFE (socioeconomic /sociopolitical)  
MUSLIM=PEACEFUL SOCIETY MEMBER WHO GIVEN SUBMISSION TO ALLAH’S COMMANDMENTS/DEEN.( أَسْلَمَ وَجْهَهُ لِلَّهِ)  
MUSHRIK=Who intermingle other DEEN/ SYSTEM OF LIFE ( BASED ON COMMANDMENTS OF ALLAH)  
IBAADAH OF ALLAH=TO FOLLOW THE ALLAH’S DEEN(COMMANDMENTS)  
HANIFA=ANTONYM OF SHIRK  
.22/31 حُنَفَاءَ لِلَّهِ غَيْرَ مُشْرِكِينَ بِهِ  
10/105 وَأَنْ أَقِمْ وَجْهَكَ لِلدِّينِ حَنِيفًا وَلاَ تَكُونَنَّ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ  
DEEN E HANIF= SYSTEM OF LIFE SOLELY BASED ON ALLAH’S COMMANDMENTS ( no intermingling of other system)  
 
SIRAT AL MUSTAQEEM= DEEN ALLAH  

Comments by: Nargis On 12 October 2011Report Abuse
Fourth, systems don’t just set or become extinct within a short time. Systems take generations to disintegrate. Therefore, Ibrahim witnessing the disintegration of at least three systems within his life-time is a distant possibility.  

How many different systems do we have today? USA and Pakistan have the same system?  
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_system  
 
The basic and general economic systems are:  
Market economy ("hands off" systems, such as Laissez-faire capitalism)  
Mixed economy (a hybrid that blends some aspects of both market and planned economies)  
Planned economy ("hands on" systems, such as state socialism)  
Traditional economy (a generic term for older economic systems)  
Participatory economics (a system where the production and distribution of goods is guided by public participation)  
Gift economy (where an exchange is made without any explicit agreement for immediate or future rewards)  
Barter economy (where goods and services are directly exchanged for other goods or services)  
 
American School  
Anarchism  
Anarcho-capitalism  
Anarcho-communism  
Autarky  
Barter economy  
Buddhist economy  
Capitalism  
Colonialism  
Communism  
Corporatism  
Corporate capitalism  
Digital economy  
Distributism  
Dirigisme  
Fascist socialization  
Feudalism  
Georgism  
Green economy  
Hydraulic despotism  
Inclusive democracy  
Information economy  
Internet economy  
Islamic economics  
Japanese System  
Knowledge economy  
Libertarian communism  
Libertarian socialism  
Market economy  
Market socialism  
Marxian economics  
Mercantilism  
Mixed economy  
Mutualism  
National Socialism  
Natural economy  
Neo-colonialism  
Network economy  
Nordic model  
Non-property system  
Parecon  
Participatory economy  
Planned economy  
PROUTist economy  
Self-management  
Social market economy  
Socialism  
Socialist market economy  
Syndicalism  
Subsistence economy  
Traditional economy  
Virtual economy  
 
one week, and you know HOW different economy systems works,


Comments by: dawood On 14 October 2011Report Abuse
SA Moazzam:  
 
“Moazzam: IBAADAH OF ALLAH=TO FOLLOW THE ALLAH’S DEEN(COMMANDMENTS)”  
 
I agree that Deen =Serving Allah= Following Allah’s commandments. Pure and Simple. “Say: "O ye men! If ye are in doubt as to my DEEN, I SERVE not what ye SERVE, other than Allah! But I SERVE Allah - Who will take your souls (at death): I am commanded to be of the Mumineen (10:104).” This would also suggest that DEEN=COURSE of ACTION. It however does not lend itself easily to “System of Life,” it’s a confusing term to me.  
 
Secondly, “Moazzam: SIRAT AL MUSTAQEEM= DEEN ALLAH” may not be true. According to Dr. QZ’s article on Sirate Mustaqeem, there are 9 items that define Sirate Mustaqeem. I don’t find “Establishing Nizam-e-Raboobiyat in that list. That means Sirate mustaqeem is a subset in DEEN Allah?  
 
Anyway, coming back to the present discussion: can we translate ALSHAMAS and ALQAMAR to be MAIN and SUBORDINATE controlling authorities, respectively, which are somehow linked to socio-economic systems? My humble understanding is NO. Here is my understanding on this.  
 
“Behold! Abraham said to his father and his people: "I do indeed clear myself of what ye SERVE: (43:26).” If SERVE is to follow someone’s orders/commandments, it is clear that Ibrahim’s people were not following Allah’s commands. But what were they doing?  
 
Now review 26:70-74: Ibrahim asking his father and his nation Whom do you SERVE. They said we SERVE ASNAAM and we remain devoted (AAKIFEEN) to them. Ibrahim said (1) do these listen to you when you call upon them, (2) do they give you good/profit, and (3) do they harm you? They said, we don’t know, we found our forefathers doing this. Now please pause a second, and ask yourselves what kind of activities/actions these people were doing? It is clear that whatever they were doing/serving, it could neither respond to them in any manner, nor benefit them, nor harm them, neither they were aware of the purpose of that activity. An activity having such attributes is a useless activity, more like rituals that majority of Muslims do now a days.  
 
Had this activity been related to some kind of “socio-economic system” at least the intellectuals among them would have definitely known as to why they are following a particular system, what are its benefits, advantages etc. Any system that people put together is meant to benefit someone somewhere; thus, benefitting some and harming perhaps a majority, like todays socio-economic systems. So Ibrahim cannot make a blanket statement like 26:72-73. It is therefore not about the socio-economic system.  
 
Now come to the actual terms ALSHAMAS and ALQAMAR. First, we go to verse 6:75, “And thus did We show Abraham the realm of the heavens (SAMAWAT) and the earth that he would be among the certain.” Verses 6:76-78 are showing that Ibrahim pondered over the heavenly bodies, as per first part of Allah’s statement in 6:76. All three, Kokaba, Alqamar, and Alshamas are proper nouns, referring to heavenly bodies. I did not find in Lane’s lexicone any of these to be translated as “controlling authorities.” It further shows that Ibrahim became convinced about the true Creator Who created all and everything, including these heavenly bodies.  
 
Further, “(2:258): Hast thou not Turned thy vision to one who disputed with Abraham About his Lord, … Said Abraham: "But it is Allah that causeth ALSHAMAS to rise from the east: Do thou then cause him to rise from the West." Thus was he confounded who rejected faith. ..” You can put the “ALshamas=main controlling authority” in this verse and see it for yourself how meaningless it becomes. This verse further points out as to how Ibrahim put together arguments by pondering on these heavenly bodies to counter the arguments by his opponents.  
 
Now as to what is the relationship of word “Rabul Alameen” in all this. By reviewing 26:77-82, I find that Rabul Alameen is responsible for the following: Who creates; Who guides; Who gives food and drink; Who cures the ill; who gives death and life; Who pardons. What is the relationship between Ibrahim’s peoples actions to that of verses 26:77-82? Verses 26:77-82 further show that English word “LORD” is perhaps a reasonably good translation of Arabic word Rab?  
 
Looking forward to your kind replies.  

Comments by: moazzam On 15 October 2011
Dear dawood !  
The Quranic context itself decide befitted sense of the same word if came at different places in Quran.. Also don't forget that, some ware metaphoric meaning deems most suitable than the lexicon or dictionary meanings. The most important factor in translating any verse is, the use of Allah’s attribute in the same verse like RABB,Allah, Rehman,Sami, Basir, Qahhar etc etc.  
Read carefully the following verses(under question) the matter of RABB has been discussed.  
 
2/258  
أَلَمْ تَرَ إِلَى الَّذِي حَآجَّ إِبْرَاهِيمَ فِي رَبِّهِ أَنْ آتَاهُ اللّهُ الْمُلْكَ إِذْ قَالَ إِبْرَاهِيمُ رَبِّيَ الَّذِي يُحْيِـي وَيُمِيتُ قَالَ أَنَا أُحْيِـي وَأُمِيتُ قَالَ إِبْرَاهِيمُ فَإِنَّ اللّهَ يَأْتِي بِالشَّمْسِ مِنَ الْمَشْرِقِ فَأْتِ بِهَا مِنَ الْمَغْرِبِ فَبُهِتَ الَّذِي كَفَرَ وَاللّهُ لاَ يَهْدِي الْقَوْمَ الظَّالِمِينَ  
6/76 فَلَمَّا جَنَّ عَلَيْهِ اللَّيْلُ رَأَى كَوْكَبًا قَالَ هَـذَا رَبِّي فَلَمَّا أَفَلَ قَالَ لاَ أُحِبُّ الْآفِلِينَ  
 
6/77 فَلَمَّا رَأَى الْقَمَرَ بَازِغًا قَالَ هَـذَا رَبِّي فَلَمَّا أَفَلَ قَالَ لَئِن لَّمْ يَهْدِنِي رَبِّي لَأَكُونَنَّ مِنَ الْقَوْمِ الضَّالِّينَ  
 
6/78 فَلَمَّا رَأَى الشَّمْسَ بَازِغَةً قَالَ هَـذَا رَبِّي هَـذَآ أَكْبَرُ فَلَمَّا أَفَلَتْ قَالَ يَا قَوْمِ إِنِّي بَرِيءٌ مِّمَّا تُشْرِكُونَ  
 

Comments by: naeem sheikh On 15 October 2011Report Abuse
Brother Moazzam: Can you give some examples from Quran to support your following version?  
“Also don't forget that, some places metaphoric meanings deem more suitable than lexicon or dictionary meanings”(moazzam)  
DEAR DAWOOD, SISTER NARGIS; DO YOU SUPPORT MR. MOAZZAM'S ABOVE STANCE?IF WE CONSIDER IT CORRECT, THEN, ARE WE NOT OPENING A DOOR FOR DEVASTATORS TO DRAG EACH VERSE TO TAKE THEIR DESIRE MEANINGS TO ESTABLISH THEIR OWN VERSION?  
 
 

Comments by: Nargis On 15 October 2011Report Abuse
IF WE CONSIDER IT CORRECT, THEN, ARE WE NOT OPENING A DOOR FOR DEVASTATORS TO DRAG EACH VERSE TO TAKE THEIR DESIRE MEANINGS TO ESTABLISH THEIR OWN VERSION?

Have they not already done that?  
 
Those who INTEND to prove they are right, will not hesitate to twist words, contexts and meanings as they like.


Comments by: Mubashir Syed On 16 October 2011Report Abuse
Dear Naeem, Nargis has rightly brought up, its been happening all time people do drag verses to tally their conjectures and tend to forget matching creation of creator and his Message...  
 
Note : Catalog and Product of manufacturer should match...  
 
Thanks,  
Mubashir Syed.

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