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TRANSLATION OF QURAN
BY DR. QAMAR ZAMAN
Translation Status
آیات
سورۃ
نمبر
1-7 الفَاتِحَة -1
1-286 البَقَرَة -2
1-200 آل عِمرَان -3
1-176 النِّسَاء -4
1-120 المَائدة -5
1-165 الاٴنعَام -6
1-206 الاٴعرَاف -7
1-75 الاٴنفَال -8
1-129 التّوبَة -9
1-109 یُونس -10
1-123 هُود -11
1-111 یُوسُف -12
1-43 الرّعد -13
1-52 إبراهیم -14
1-99 الحِجر -15
1-128 النّحل -16
1-111 بنیٓ اسرآئیل / الإسرَاء -17
1-110 الکهف -18
1-98 مَریَم -19
1-135 طٰه -20
1-112 الاٴنبیَاء -21
1-78 الحَجّ -22
1-118 المؤمنون -23
1-64 النُّور -24
1-77 الفُرقان -25
1-227 الشُّعَرَاء -26
1-93 النَّمل -27
1-88 القَصَص -28
1-69 العَنکبوت -29
1-60 الرُّوم -30
1-34 لقمَان -31
1-30 السَّجدَة -32
1-73 الاٴحزَاب -33
1-54 سَبَإ -34
1-45 فَاطِر -35
1-83 یسٓ -36
1-182 الصَّافات -37
1-88 صٓ -38
1-75 الزُّمَر -39
1-85 المؤمن / غَافر -40
1-54 حٰمٓ السجدة / فُصّلَت -41
1-54 القَمَر -54
Read Now


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ARTICLES
QURAN FEHMI
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Please elaborate the meaning of 4:11  
Do you think that it is about inheritage?
Add Your Comments  Question by: DR SHIRAZ On 31 August 2011
Comments by: moazzam On 01 September 2011
Dear Bkanwar! Please translate 4/11-12. Thanks

Comments by: Dr Shiraz On 03 September 2011Report Abuse
By looking at the words, I cant help thinking that the numbers of 2, 3, 4 and so on, are somehow related to what is said in 4:3. I understand that the verses are not about women, but rather the weaker population (in social sence).  
 
You do not have to translate the whole thing but it would be helpfull to clarify the meaning of some main words that are creating all the confusion.  
 
I for once, do not believe that these words are talking about heritage, but defining the "nikah" with "the weak ones". But even then, I cant lift the blur.  
 
Please advice.  
 

Comments by: waseemameer On 07 September 2011Report Abuse
Brother Moazzam  
Can you explain this?  
يُوصِيكُمُ اللَّـهُ فِي أَوْلَادِكُمْ ۖ لِلذَّكَرِ مِثْلُ حَظِّ الْأُنثَيَيْنِ ۚ فَإِن كُنَّ نِسَاءً فَوْقَ اثْنَتَيْنِ فَلَهُنَّ ثُلُثَا مَا تَرَكَ ۖ وَإِن كَانَتْ وَاحِدَةً فَلَهَا النِّصْفُ ۚ وَلِأَبَوَيْهِ لِكُلِّ وَاحِدٍ مِّنْهُمَا السُّدُسُ مِمَّا تَرَكَ إِن كَانَ لَهُ وَلَدٌ ۚ فَإِن لَّمْ يَكُن لَّهُ وَلَدٌ وَوَرِثَهُ أَبَوَاهُ فَلِأُمِّهِ الثُّلُثُ ۚ فَإِن كَانَ لَهُ إِخْوَةٌ فَلِأُمِّهِ السُّدُسُ ۚ مِن بَعْدِ وَصِيَّةٍ يُوصِي بِهَا أَوْ دَيْنٍ ۗ آبَاؤُكُمْ وَأَبْنَاؤُكُمْ لَا تَدْرُونَ أَيُّهُمْ أَقْرَبُ لَكُمْ نَفْعًا ۚ فَرِيضَةً مِّنَ اللَّـهِ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّـهَ كَانَ عَلِيمًا حَكِيمًا  
 

Comments by: moazzam On 07 September 2011
Dear Waseemameer! As you know the Surahs "AL-NISA , AL-MAIDAH and AL-ANAAM " provides the eternal values and laws, on which the legislation of the societies bases. The basic unit of the society is a "family" which has members as an elements, therefore the individuals, the family, and the society's matters as a whole need to be addressed in a very clear manners, so that ,the mankind may design their socio economic system in their era.  
We must comprehend the sense of the terminologies used in verses 6/143-153, 2/180, 4/11-12 to reach at the truth. In the light of verses 4/1-12 it seems that the words are talking about heritage if some one had.  
 
 
 
 

Comments by: Dr Shiraz On 07 September 2011Report Abuse
Thanks for the answer, but then we have some grammatical errors. Looking at the structure of the verse, word by word would be : "Instructs YOU Allah concerning your children, for the Dhikar similar portion of two of these Inths. But if there are nisaa more then two, then for them two thirds of what HE left. And if there is one then for her is half........."  
 
Now the vers is talking to YOU, but the one who is supposed to leave something is HE (a third person singular). The word for son is Dhikar as proper noun. Dhikar meaning the one who remembers and protect. Also doughters are mentioned with the word "Inth" as proper noun, while the meaning is of being soft and mouldable.  
Furthermore, the word for doughters being more then two is "nisaa", if this word is to mean "women" then it should include grandmothers, sisters, mothers, and gransdoughers as well.  
 
Looking at the context of vers 1-9 where the issue is to give the "weaker" members of the society their share, this law of inheritage makes no sence.  
 
Furthermore, I strongly feel that Quran do not distinguish between menn and women to not let them have equal shares.  

Comments by: waseemameer On 07 September 2011Report Abuse
Dear Dr.Qamar  
 
Can you please help us understanding verse 4/11.  
Thanks

Comments by: Nargis2 On 07 September 2011Report Abuse

If 4:11-12 is about heritage, why is it given as an eternal law which is tilka hudoodu Allahi 4:13. Why is wasiat nama in own family given as eternal value and not something that can be modified according to the society:-O?  
 
I can see the point that the state will take care of heritage and set basic frames to prevent decisions made in anger or conflicts etc. That so the situation and relationship between people when they are alive, is not to impact rest of the lives of other family members for ever. Like in Norway, if you are a millionaire,you only have jurisdiction over 2 / 3. If you give away everything when you are alive, this rule doesn't apply. But many people are against it . Maybe in the future this law will be changed. Another rule is that the wife may have undivided property and don't have to share the inheritance. This is because they want to maintain the same standard of living for her as she had before her husband died. Nevertheless, this rule is abused and many women sell to give to the favorite son etc. So may be this law will also be amended in the future.  
 
If 4:11 rules are eternal values, it means they are valid and beneficial in all eras. so how will two thirds for girls be beneficial and have any impact on the socio economy as a whole?  
 
And this part:- ""to the male, a portion equal to that of two females: ""  
 
:-O  
 
And this  
 
"" if only one, her share is a half.""  
 
Where is the other half gone?  
 
And why is it said two males and females as aulad, not daughter and son?  
 
"Ye know not whether your parents or your children are nearest to you in benefit. "  
 
Should this situation be different from family to family? Is it not strange that you don't know ur own family, parents or children, all your life,,,in all times?  
 
Why is it talking to "you" if the state is to take care of such rules?  
 
Zroor daal main kuch....peela hai :-O Mere khyal main to sari daal hi peeli hai


Comments by: moazzam On 07 September 2011
Dr. Shiraz! I also have many concerns about the Orthodox translations especially the verses 6/143-153, 2/180, 4/11-12 . It need intensive research work to find out the truth, Or to justify the current said translation grammatically as well.

Comments by: Nargis2 On 07 September 2011Report Abuse
Now the vers is talking to YOU, but the one who is supposed to leave something is HE (a third person singular)

But the instruction is given to "YOU" before you become "HE" , or did I get this wrong?

 

Comments by: Dr Shiraz On 07 September 2011Report Abuse
Nargis:  
If you have the answer, then please share. I am not concerned about how different countries run their bussiness. My issue is to understand what Quran is saying.  
 
Moazzam:  
From what I understand, the society of muslim civilisations are instructed some social rules here. The rules are talking of people who are nisaa (weaker) and consist on categories of yateem (those who have none to take care of them and they are still not mature to take care of them selves), Miskeen (with no support and no means), inth (soft ones who are ready to be moulded). There are rajjal (strong ones) and one category there is dhakar (those who understand and guard the information).  
 
Each group of people have equal rights, but even though, the stronger ones are told to take care of the weaker once. For this there are some obligations that the state decides between the strong ones and the weak ones. There are multiple contract in between them, but where a fair relationship is not possible there each society is first to take care of their own partners.  
 
And then is the division of responsibilities which I do not get yet. One dhikar is equal to two soft ones. Furthermore, where there are other kinds of weak groups, the attention must be divided equally somehow.  
 
Also note that the word for "children" is aulad, which is better translated as derivatives. but the word for parents is abu, which basically means "the initiator ot inventors", several places this word has been translated to "forefathers" and very few places as parents. This is not right. It should mean "something one originated from"  
 
But this mathematical division is still confusing for me.  
 
The other verses from other surahs must be dealth according to their place in the context. I am not focusing on them right now.  
 
 
 
 
 

Comments by: Nargis2 On 07 September 2011Report Abuse

Other verses using the same terminology must be taken into account as well, like brother Moazzam pointed out. your focus or concerns are yours- But we like to see how the words are used in the Quran and not only at one place. Oh and my questions are not for you.You opened a thread and everyone who have questions related to the relevant ayah/topic is allowed to post them under this thread. If you have problems with that then don't read them and carry on  
 
Dr Uncle and Brother Moazzam (not dr shiraz)  
 
The surah is talking about orphans from the beginning, is it possible this "inth (soft ones who are ready to be moulded)" r orphans/yatama, and this verse is about their rights or how they should be treated ?


Comments by: Dr Shiraz On 07 September 2011Report Abuse
I am sorry to say but I am sensing inhospitality here. Are questions not allowed, or do you mean that my question is not relevant?

Comments by: Nargis2 On 07 September 2011Report Abuse

Your Question is nice and relevant of course, that's why brother Waseem and me are asking about the same verse. and we are allowed to do so- We try see what words means/ what the essence is through grammar, tasreef and rattal under the parameter of the core message of the Quran, that's why brother Moazzam pointed out other verses. Sorry If you feel hospitality, that's not the intention though.


Comments by: Dr Shiraz On 07 September 2011Report Abuse
Thankt for the discussion then. I appriciate it.  
 
The other versees are surely important. All I am saying is that the flow of a commandment must remain intact. Other verses may say the same thing, but the flow under focus must also be clear in its own way.  
 
But thats for the references anyway. I shall include them in furhter investigation.  

Comments by: Nargis2 On 07 September 2011Report Abuse

Please share everything you find, because as a woman, I'm very much interested in what it really means. "half of a male",,,errm,,not a nice song :/ :(


Comments by: Dr Shiraz On 07 September 2011Report Abuse
I will do so, thanks.  
 
According to what I understand, this "HE" who is supposed to leave something behind, is the mentioned "Dhikar". Such a person may leave knowledge, so perhaps the meaning is that this knowledgeable person is supposed to be responsible for 2 who are erady to recieve this knowlegde? This I get, but get confused when I continue. Am having trouble with 2/3, 1/6 and all that. Even mathematically, this does not add upp. (I have drawn up the chart)  
 
Looking foreward to some exchange of ideas.  

Comments by: Junaid On 07 September 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
 
Dear Dr. Shiraz, I feel glad to see some very good questions raised by you. I have noticed the same issue here at aastana that the members are too busy in meaningless rebuttals focusing on non issues while research oriented queries or the real issues which could lead us towards a practical understanding of Quranic message according to the current era, are being constantly ignored.  
 
It is to mention that I too have raised a lot of questions on the same topic of socio-economic structure defined in Quran and I have already been insisting that we need to look at these concepts with an open state of mind. What I mean to say is that out thoughts or our concepts are limited to the socio-economic system we see around us today, and we cannot see things beyond a certain limit. The current economic system is based on Keynesian economic theories as well as post Keynesian ones, where human beings act as Homo-economicus.  
Homo economicus, or Economic human, is the concept in some economic theories of humans as rational and narrowly self-interested actors who have the ability to make judgments toward their subjectively defined ends. This theory stands in contrast to the concept of Homo reciprocans, which states that human beings are primarily motivated by the desire to be cooperative, and improve their environment.  
The concept of economy is quite different today, and is entirely based on artificial form of wealth, for example fiat money which is nothing but debt and is created out of nothing, or we can take example of artificial wealth in form of securities, stocks, bonds and even the loans receivable which are considered as assets. Even the precious metals are being valued artificially due to the gold/silver certificates being issues without having sufficient metal to back up or repay on demand (the artificial prices being controlled by Rothschild group).  
 
Here is the question I have already raised in this regard;  
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?SID=29&QID=1701  
Unfortunately no one attended this question.  
 
What we the truth seekers can do now is to ponder on these things with an open state of mind, leaving behind all the pre-conceived ideas regarding the system of economy and governance we have.  
As a wise man once said;  
You cannot fill a cup with knowledge or wisdom, without emptying it first.  
 
I would like to request you to please join me in this research.  
 
In order to understand the real concept behind 4-11, we need to go through the chapter right from the beginning.  
I would request you to kindly note that we need to comprehendd the very first verse of Chapter 4, before proceeding further;  
يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّاسُ ٱتَّقُو۟ا رَبَّكُمُ ٱلَّذِى خَلَقَكُم مِّن نَّفْسٍ وَٰحِدَةٍ وَخَلَقَ مِنْهَا زَوْجَهَا وَبَثَّ مِنْهُمَا رِجَالًا كَثِيرًا وَنِسَآءً وَٱتَّقُو۟ا ٱللَّهَ ٱلَّذِى تَسَآءَلُونَ بِهِ وۦَٱلْأَرْحَامَ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ كَانَ عَلَيْكُمْ رَقِيبًا  
 
Please note the following words:  
نَّفْسٍ وَٰحِدَةٍ, زَوْجَهَا, رِجَالًا, وَنِسَآءً,  
 
In the next verse comes a very important part which revolves around the concept of أَمْوَٰلَهُمْ  
Please see the following question I have raised in this regard:  
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?SID=41&QID=1632  
 
It is imperative to understand the true concept of ٱلْمَالَ and أَمْوَٰلِهِمْ in order to grasp the real concept behind these verses and for that you will have to go through the following part of verse (2:177);  
وَءَاتَى ٱلْمَالَ عَلَىٰ حُبِّهِ ذۦَوِى ٱلْقُرْبَىٰ وَٱلْيَتَٰمَىٰ وَٱلْمَسَٰكِينَ وَٱبْنَ ٱلسَّبِيلِ وَٱلسَّآئِلِينَ وَفِى ٱلرِّقَابِ وَأَقَامَ ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ وَءَاتَى ٱلزَّكَوٰةَ  
 
 
Then there are further instructions (starting from 4:02 on-wards) which revolves around the following words;  
ٱلْيَتَٰمَىٰ, فَٱنكِحُو۟ا, ٱلنِّسَآءِ, مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَٰنُكُمْ, صَدُقَٰتِهِنَّ, تَرَكَ ٱلْوَٰلِدَانِ, ٱلْأَقْرَبُونَ, وَٱلْمَسَٰكِينُ,  
 
And finally please concentrate on the following verse;  
وَلْيَخْشَ ٱلَّذِينَ لَوْ تَرَكُو۟ا مِنْ خَلْفِهِمْ ذُرِّيَّةً ضِعَٰفًا خَافُو۟ا عَلَيْهِمْ فَلْيَتَّقُو۟ا ٱللَّهَ وَلْيَقُولُو۟ا قَوْلًا سَدِيدًا (4:09  
 
I was pondering on the word خَلْفِهِمْ and it took me to the following verse;  
وَهُوَ ٱلَّذِى جَعَلَكُمْ خَلَٰٓئِفَ ٱلْأَرْضِ وَرَفَعَ بَعْضَكُمْ فَوْق بَعْضٍ دَرَجَٰتٍ لِّيَبْلُوَكُمْ فِى مَآ ءَاتَىٰكُمْ (6:165  
 
As far as I have understood so far, this word خَلْفِهِمْ looks more like a collective inheritance.  
 
NOTE: I am not trying to teach you anything because I simply cannot, since my understanding is too limited. However, I would like to invite you to please share your thoughts so that we all could get to a better understanding regarding these instructions.
 

Comments by: waseemameer On 07 September 2011Report Abuse
I think this verse is further categorizing the people.  
 
وْلَادِكُمْ= tumhare zair nageen afraad  
 
لِلذَّكَرِ مِثْلُ حَظِّ الْأُنثَيَيْنِ= for two weaker group , one stronger group(Dakar= better in knowledge)  
 
إِن كُنَّ نِسَاءً فَوْقَ اثْنَتَيْنِ = If any group is stronger in power  
 
فَلَهُنَّ ثُلُثَا مَا تَرَكَ= For them three groups , from those who are under you  
 
وَإِن كَانَتْ وَاحِدَةً فَلَهَا النِّصْفُ ۚ= and if any group among them left alone, hence complete their rights  
 
 
just my thinking...and still working

Comments by: Dr Shiraz On 07 September 2011Report Abuse
I am looking forward to our future discussions Junaid.  
 
I have been concentrating on these verses in sequence, and also I have come the same conclusion that the word خَلْفِهِمْ is used for collective inheritage of values from one generation to the following ones.  
(or at least in 4:09, I haven’t looked at 6:165 yet).  
 
Waseemameer  
I see the logic in your understanding. Makes lot more sence and suits better with my understanding of vers 4:1-10  
 
But here you are translating تَرَكَ as “under” instead of left.  
 
I agree on فَوْقَ meaning more in power, or status, instead in numbers. This is also my understanding.  
 
So thanks, this make much more sense, but how do you get to conclude that ثُلُثَا means three groups instead of 1/3 ?  
 
Please comment further. This was very interesting.  

Comments by: waseemameer On 07 September 2011Report Abuse
وَلِأَبَوَيْهِ لِكُلِّ وَاحِدٍ مِّنْهُمَا السُّدُسُ مِمَّا تَرَكَ إِن كَانَ لَهُ وَلَدٌ  
 
and the group looking after those groups, for each of them, more efforts/tasks from the responsibilities what you have, if they want to be a Walad.

Comments by: Junaid On 07 September 2011Report Abuse
Salaam;  
 
Thank you Dr. Shiraz. I too feel that these discussions will help us to reach the conclusion in order to define a practically implementable sketch of the socio-economic system defined in Quran.  
 
Brother Waseem, according to what I have understood so far, the Quranic socio-economic system is primarily based on the concepts of justice, equality, liberty and it emphasizes on equal and invariable access to natural resources for all (please correct me if I am wrong).  
 
Having said that, I would like to request you to kindly elaborate how the following concepts (as per your understanding) could meet the criteria of equality and liberty;  
 
وْلَادِكُمْ= tumhare zair nageen afraad  
 
لِلذَّكَرِ مِثْلُ حَظِّ الْأُنثَيَيْنِ= for two weaker group , one stronger group(Dakar= better in knowledge)  
 
إِن كُنَّ نِسَاءً فَوْقَ اثْنَتَيْنِ = If any group is stronger in power  
 
فَلَهُنَّ ثُلُثَا مَا تَرَكَ= For them three groups , from those who are under you  
 
وَإِن كَانَتْ وَاحِدَةً فَلَهَا النِّصْفُ ۚ= and if any group among them left alone, hence complete their rights  
 
It seems more like a hierarchy being presented, where there are multiple groups having different statuses, exercising different types of authorities over other human beings.  
If that is the case, I would request you to please define this structural hierarchy of an "Islamic state" in detail, keeping in mind the concepts of equality and liberty.  
 
Let me share the definition of liberty and equality for your convenience:  
 
EQUALITY:  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equality  
 
Also see the following, to understand the socio-economic concept of equality:  
 
EGALITARIANISM:  
Egalitarianism is a trend of thought that favors equality of some sort among moral agents, whether persons or animals. Emphasis is placed upon the fact that equality contains the idea of equity of quality. Moral agents should get the same, or be treated the same, or be regarded as possessing the same quality in some respect despite race, religion, ethnicity, sex, sexual preference, species, political affiliation, economic status, social status, and/or cultural heritage. Egalitarian doctrines tend to maintain that all humans are equal in fundamental worth or social status.  
 
NOTE: I have raised the following question in this regard, but it is still unanswered;  
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?SID=29&QID=1704  
 
LIBERTY:  
Liberty is a concept in political philosophy that identifies the condition in which human beings are able to govern themselves, to behave according to their own free will, and take responsibility for their actions. There are different conceptions of liberty, which articulate the relationship of individuals to society in different ways, including some which relate to life under a "social contract" or to existence in a "state of nature", and some which see the active exercise of freedom and rights as essential to liberty.  
 
Looking forward to your reply.
 

Comments by: waseemameer On 07 September 2011Report Abuse
Brother Junaid  
 
Mentally, not everyone is same and I can see I have supervisors, and some work under myself.  
Heirarchy is according to their knowledge.

Comments by: Junaid On 07 September 2011Report Abuse
Thank you for the reply Brother Waseem. It makes a lot of sense to me. However I think there is still a confusion in my mind and I would like you to help me in this regard (if possible).  
 
The institutional Hierarchy was a concept created by Greeks in order to define the pyramid of human authorities and to facilitate exercising of authority by so called "Upper class" or "ruling class" over the "Middle/lower class" or those being ruled. The same structure can be seen in almost all the corporations/banks/institutions where employees are subservient to the higher authorities. We can take the example of various Government institutions of Australia or Canada where the officials still take oath to serve "Her Majesty" the Queen of England and not the general public, which is a clear example of continuation of that old Greek and Roman concept of authority and imperialism.  
(BTW: If you do some research, you'll find a link in terms of family tree between the Royal monarchs of England the Roman Catholic Church and the Greek/Roman autocrats).  
 
Likewise, the structural hierarchy of an office (as you have pointed out), normally contradicts the concept of Egalitarianism as well as liberty by restricting your options to take decisions using your own freewill OR by not allowing you to take certain decisions without consent of higher officials. This may be seen in a sense that a person supervising you may be wrong in his inference but he can force his decision on you, despite the fact that you were thinking in the right direction. OR we can say that one of your subordinate may be thinking in the right direction but you can exercise your authority by forcing him to do what is right in your point of view (even if he is right and you are wrong).  
 
In these structures, there always is a possibility that a comparatively less knowledgeable individual may get a chance to become more authoritative due to various reasons, for example being the son of a CEO or the president, one may become the General manager, superseding more experienced individuals and can get into a position of forcing his authority on more knowledgeable individuals this way.  
Also to mention that the current concept of hierarchy if applied to the system of Governance, do carry the tendency of ending up into cronyism.  
 
To tell you the truth, I have many reservations regarding this structural hierarchy among human beings on the basis of authority. This is the reason why I am so keen to understand a practically applicable structure of hierarchy as defined in Quran. Probably it is not that simple and as per my opinion, it is imperative that we should try and distinguish between the man made concepts of Hierarchy and the one defined by Quran, through research on both.  
 
NOTE: I am not trying to involve you or anyone else in an unnecessary debate, rather my purpose is to closely analyze the minor details in order to identify the differences between the current mainstream socio-economic system and that defined in Quran. Hope you and others may help me to comprehend.
 

Comments by: Dr Shiraz On 07 September 2011Report Abuse
A valid thought Junaid. But I do not see as hierarchy and different social classes. This may be about for instance children, since children are not able to take care of themselves and are weaker part of the population. The command is saying that even though they live with their parents, they are the responsibility of the state. The parents may provide for them out of what the state gives them, train and educate them, but only until they are not ready or mature. 4:3-7  
 
This may also suit for other people who are adults but not ready to be a part of the system yet. They need to be trained and no compensation should be expected. As I see, even parents should not expect compensations, but the trained children, when grown up, may very well share their intellect with them.  
 
This is not hierarchy, but sharing of responsibilties at the best availability.  
 
 
(This is just a personal understanding at this point, please correct me if I am wrong)

Comments by: Nargis2 On 07 September 2011Report Abuse

Brother Waseem and Shiraz, j ust thinking out loud.....Maybe its not figures, but something else. Like Salas can also means awam ke khilaf badshah ke kaan bharna. and مِثْلُ can also mean Stand erect, be nearly in a sound or healthy state, near to convalescence, obey/follow a command or order,etc. and حَظِّ also means Ha-Za-Za = To be in good circumstances, to be fortunate, to be rich/wealthy/opulent, possess competence or sufficiency, in no need, without wants or with few wants, prefer one person above another. اثْنَتَيْنِ also means Tha-Nun-Ya = to bend/fold, double up, turn one part of a thing upon the other, draw one of its two extremities to the other, join or adjoin one of the things to the other, turn anyone away or back from his course or from the object of his want, conceal enmity.  
 
Just as an example, could it be something like "Knowledgeableلِلذَّكَرِ people may stand erected مِثْلُ for inth الْأُنثَيَيْنِ(soft ones who are ready to be moulded) so/until they posses competence حَظِّ/ or don't have any needs, but if it is a weaker group نِسَاءً with the powerفَوْقَ to turn anyone away or back from his course اثْنَتَيْنِ, then for them (or they will leave others) it is ثُلُثَا (confusion as a result of roomers) left ...-->???


Comments by: Dr Shiraz On 07 September 2011Report Abuse
It may very well be so, but then the dual form of inth is out of my understanding. The only way that makes sence, is if there are two different kinds of inth defined. That is why I think that this is reffered to the mention of yateem and miskeen, allready mentioned earlier.  
 
If there is only one nisaa, then the attention is Nisf=half=Equal.  
 
The problem arise on words translated to dual form of 1/3. If there weak ones are more then these two groups, then the "attention" is to be divided 1/3. This is ok when they are 3, but not that easy to understand if there are 4 or 5. This gets more complicated in vers 12 when we hvae words to say 1/4 1/6 and so on. I suggest that someone with arabic knowledge have a better look in a better dictionary. Perhaps that would help. I do not believe that this is about inheritage or numbers.  
 

Comments by: Nargis2 On 07 September 2011Report Abuse
I do not believe that this is about inheritage or numbers.

yes

but then the dual form of inth is out of my understanding.

Or maybe it is not "two" but their "condition"...Tha-Nun-Ya = to bend/fold, double up, turn one part of a thing upon the other, draw one of its two extremities to the other, join or adjoin one of the things to the other, turn anyone away or back from his course or from the object of his want, conceal enmity. ...Lane's Lexicon, Volume 1, pages: 393, 394, 395, 396, 397, 398


Comments by: waseemameer On 07 September 2011Report Abuse
Brother Junaid,  
My thoughts  
 
1. Any society will have heirarchy as different people have different abilities and responsibilities  
2. The only difference in the Muslim state , would be the common goal i.e. serve for humanity.  
3. Also the fact is the current structural tree in any society/private institution/government institution seems to be OK except that the exploitation of rights and position happens, and management is not watchful over them.  
 
That's why Mumlikat-e-KHudad is the one who possesses those attributies as mentioned in Quran for Allah. He should be watchfull, Shadeed ul Eqaab, Sareeh ul Hisaab etc. It is 24x7 job  
 

Comments by: waseemameer On 07 September 2011Report Abuse
Dear Sister Nargis and Dr Shiraz  
You are right. I think the whole verse is depending on the meaning of ' taraka' and 'amwaal'  
From verse 8, in my opinion these verses are talking about spreading out the responsibilities, among people in the society. We need to understand what are the roles of الْوَالِدَانِ . They are those people who have the major responsibilites of producing/training as mentioned by Dr. qamar in Surah Baqra.  
 
Taraka is those responsibilites, spreading out to Rijaal, Nisaa, Yatama,Masakeeen.  
 
وَلْيَخْشَ الَّذِينَ لَوْ تَرَكُوا مِنْ خَلْفِهِمْ ذُرِّيَّةً ضِعَافًا خَافُوا عَلَيْهِمْ فَلْيَتَّقُوا اللَّـهَ وَلْيَقُولُوا قَوْلًا سَدِيدًا  
is talking about people leaving major responsibilities, on those who are Ziaaf  
 
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَأْكُلُونَ أَمْوَالَ الْيَتَامَىٰ ظُلْمًا إِنَّمَا يَأْكُلُونَ فِي بُطُونِهِمْ نَارًا ۖ وَسَيَصْلَوْنَ سَعِيرًا  
is talking about yatamaa, as people may exploit them, as they are alone and may not have immediate supervisors/bosses  
 
إِخْوَةٌ are those people/group who share the same objective, as like brother

Comments by: Junaid On 08 September 2011Report Abuse
Brother Waseem;  
 
If a concept of hierarchy has been given in Quran, and if such hierarchy is expected to exist in the society, then those who are on top or the authoritative position must posses an exemplary and extraordinary character based on selflessness and Benevolence.  
 
I would request you to kindly go through the following post and share your valuable comments on it;  
 
http://www.aastana.com/blog/aastanablog.asp?QID=1701#COM8866  

Comments by: Nargis2 On 08 September 2011Report Abuse
1. Any society will have heirarchy as different people have different abilities and responsibilities  
2. The only difference in the Muslim state , would be the common goal i.e. serve for humanity.  
3. Also the fact is the current structural tree in any society/private institution/government institution seems to be OK except that the exploitation of rights and position happens, and management is not watchful over them.  
 

Thank you so much, loved your explanation.The Qur'an gives an instruction on how the circulation of responsibilities should be maintained between the “hierarchies”, which can’t be unjust. The «hierarchy” is not based on their “status” or rank; rather it is based on their capacity and abilities in various fields or mental level of capacities. It is unavoidable that various people with different capabilities will exist in all societies at all times, but you can avoid unfair conduct between one another.


Comments by: waseemameer On 08 September 2011Report Abuse
Very true sis Nargis and thanks for your words.  
 
Brother Junaid, I will go through the link and your post and will get back to you.  
 
*****If a concept of hierarchy has been given in Quran, and if such hierarchy is expected to exist in the society, then those who are on top or the authoritative position must posses an exemplary and extraordinary character based on selflessness and Benevolence.  
 
Yes they need to be exemplary and extraordinary character but few of them won't work .Need plenty of them.  
Brother Moazzam, Your input will be appreciated. Understaning we have put so far, could be wrong and need expert opinions from yourself and Dr. Qamar.

Comments by: Dr Shiraz On 08 September 2011Report Abuse
Waseemameer, you wrote:  
_____________________________________________________________________  
 
Taraka is those responsibilites, spreading out to Rijaal, Nisaa, Yatama,Masakeeen.  
 
وَلْيَخْشَ الَّذِينَ لَوْ تَرَكُوا مِنْ خَلْفِهِمْ ذُرِّيَّةً ضِعَافًا خَافُوا عَلَيْهِمْ فَلْيَتَّقُوا اللَّـهَ وَلْيَقُولُوا قَوْلًا سَدِيدًا  
is talking about people leaving major responsibilities, on those who are Ziaaf  
 
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَأْكُلُونَ أَمْوَالَ الْيَتَامَىٰ ظُلْمًا إِنَّمَا يَأْكُلُونَ فِي بُطُونِهِمْ نَارًا ۖ وَسَيَصْلَوْنَ سَعِيرًا  
is talking about yatamaa, as people may exploit them, as they are alone and may not have immediate supervisors/bosses  
 
إِخْوَةٌ are those people/group who share the same objective, as like brother  
___________________________________________________________________  
 
Now I feel we are closing on to the solution. This makes much more sense. I thank you very much for this. As long as people see the Quran with a logical sense, they will come to same conclusion at the end. So the verses are talking about division of responsibilities among different groups of people. But I would like to highlight that this is a subject of responsibility division and not a division of status.  
 
According to my understanding of verses from surah 78 (78:6 in particular) is saying that the Al-Arz is made flat and even. Al-arz is the common level of society (lover level then the Quranic laws) and being flat means that all people have equal rights and status. The difference shall only be based upon the knowledge that people may possess on different levels, but still, the access to knowledge is open for all.  
 
Even though, I would appreciate some expert words on this matter from Dr. Qamar.  

Comments by: moazzam On 08 September 2011
Brother Waseemameer and participants! ** SITARON SE AGE JAHAN AUR BHI HAIN** ABHI ISHQ KE IMTEHAN AUR BHI HAIN**  
 
The Surah Nisa has been started (read the verse4/1)to elaborate the importance of distribution of wealth(mal) and the share of responsibilities among the society members. The matters of mal are described in verses 4/2-10, whereas the distribution of responsibilities has been described in verses 4/11-12.  
There is difference in Taraka in wealth(maal) written in verse 4/7 and “taraka Khairan” written in verses 2/180-181 to comprehend the Wasiyat in “taraka khairan” see the verses 2/113, the KHAIR means the divine message( see the verse 2/105), the look after of the institutions based on Islamic ideologies (TARAKAH KHAIRAN) left for their descendants see the TARAKA OF ALE MUSA AND HAROON mentioned in verse 2/248.  
In my opinion Sister Nargis is at right track to find out the truth (the true divine message), no doubt a hard job the version must meet the grammatical rules under the core message of Quran.  

Comments by: Nargis On 08 September 2011Report Abuse

Thank you boss Moazzammmmm i knew it knew it knew it, you put me on the track by providing the other ayah's. thats what i call good teamwork, thumbs up for us :-D with the new ayahs it is even clearer that this is not about figures and fixed inheritance rules,,told you daal main kuch peela hai ,,,it's getting orange now, pakk rahi hai :D


Comments by: Nargis2 On 10 September 2011Report Abuse

الْأُنثَيَيْنِ `= The dual form of l-unthayayni [the dual] الْأُنثَيَيْنِ) t The two testicles; scrotum and The two tribes of Bljeeleh and Kud,'ah. unthya al fars= inner parts of the tighs of a horse. And the two ears because words re fem. gender, Lane's Lexicon, Volume 1, page: 149


Comments by: waseemameer On 13 September 2011Report Abuse
Dear members  
my finding on 4/12 , please comment  
وَلَكُمْ نِصْفُ مَا تَرَكَ أَزْوَاجُكُمْ إِن لَّمْ يَكُن لَّهُنَّ وَلَدٌ ۚ فَإِن كَانَ لَهُنَّ وَلَدٌ فَلَكُمُ الرُّبُعُ مِمَّا تَرَكْنَ ۚ مِن بَعْدِ وَصِيَّةٍ يُوصِينَ بِهَا أَوْ دَيْنٍ ۚ وَلَهُنَّ الرُّبُعُ مِمَّا تَرَكْتُمْ إِن لَّمْ يَكُن لَّكُمْ وَلَدٌ ۚ فَإِن كَانَ لَكُمْ وَلَدٌ فَلَهُنَّ الثُّمُنُ مِمَّا تَرَكْتُم ۚ مِّن بَعْدِ وَصِيَّةٍ تُوصُونَ بِهَا أَوْ دَيْنٍ ۗ وَإِن كَانَ رَجُلٌ يُورَثُ كَلَالَةً أَوِ امْرَأَةٌ وَلَهُ أَخٌ أَوْ أُخْتٌ فَلِكُلِّ وَاحِدٍ مِّنْهُمَا السُّدُسُ ۚ فَإِن كَانُوا أَكْثَرَ مِن ذَٰلِكَ فَهُمْ شُرَكَاءُ فِي الثُّلُثِ ۚ مِن بَعْدِ وَصِيَّةٍ يُوصَىٰ بِهَا أَوْ دَيْنٍ غَيْرَ مُضَارٍّ ۚ وَصِيَّةً مِّنَ اللَّـهِ ۗ وَاللَّـهُ عَلِيمٌ حَلِيمٌ  
 
اور تمہارے لیے تمہاری جماعتوں کی زمہ داریوں کا منصف(فیصلہ کرنے والا) ہونا ہے اگر ان کا کوئ پرورش کرنے والا نہ ہو ، اور اگر ان کا پررورش کرنے والا ہو تو تمہارے لیے ان زمہ داریوں کا بوجھ بٹانا ہے اس کے بعد جب کے ان کو تاکید کردی گئ ، تاکیدی باتوں کی یا دین کی، اور اگر تمہارا کوئ پرورش کرنے والا نہ ہو تو ان جماعتوں کے لیے تمہاری زمہ داریوں کا بوجھ بٹانا ہے اور اگر کوئ تمہارا پرورش کرنے والا ہو تو ان کے لیے تمہاری زمہ داریاں نہایت بیش قیمت چیز ہونگی، اس کے بعد جب کےتم کو تاکید کردی گئ ، تاکیدی باتوں کی یا دین کی،

Comments by: naeem sheikh On 13 September 2011Report Abuse
Brother Waseemameer! Kindly justify your translation/interpretation by lexicon and grammatically i e وَلَدٌ= پرورش کرنے والا , remember "Aba"is antonym of "Walad", Walid mean the producer whereas walad is product . Also the word "Hakaman" at other places of Quran already been used for منصف(فیصلہ کرنے والا)

Comments by: waseemameer On 13 September 2011Report Abuse
You are right Naeem  
Waladun=product,  
I'll look at it again. Sorry just my thoughts.  
Insaaf is derived from Nisf (noon-saad-fay)

Comments by: Dr Shiraz On 14 September 2011 Edit DeleteReport Abuse
Thank you waseemameer.  
 
I like your try, but as Naeem said, a relook is needed.  
 
Please also comment my understanding. I visualise a pie, divide it into some pieces, and take out a piece.  
The bigger part of the pie from where the small part got separated from, is walad, while the smaller part separated out is aulaad. It is therefore essential that the smaller part has the same qualities as the bigger part and even cause decrease in the size of the whole pie by separating. This is why I believe that in surah Ikhlaas Allahs social system has been described as something unique. It is not a fraction of something bigger, that you may say that it is not complete, and neither does it have fractions, that you may say that you only wants to addapt certain parts of it. It is either the whole thing or nothing. On top of that, other systems cant even stand a comparison to it.  
 
But back to nisa. I had a look at vers 4:13 today, and it says that these discussed things (vers 4:1-12) are the Hudood-Allah, The commom borders of Allah, so vers 11 and 12 are talking about some mutual restrictions people are not ment to cross from either sides. And those who work co-operatively and willingly with Allah and his rusool, shall experience Jannah. (Not getting into details of these word, since I think we agree upon those)  
 
So verses til now, including 11 and 12, are talking about some actions and restrictions that are applicable in the society and these are adressed as hudood-Allah. People who work on these actions willingly, shall experience Jannah. I think we can all agree upon that dividing heritage unevenly is not going to get us there, that is, to something vers 13 calls en extreme accomplishment.  
 
Your further help is very much appreciated to unveil the meaning of verse 11 and 12.

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